Dallas Stars Prospect NHL Scoring Equivalencies
Evaluating prospects in any sport is difficult. Hockey prospects, in particular, are very difficult to evaluate for the masses in the United State because there aren't many opportunities for fans to actually see the players play. Fortunately, based on years of statistical history it's fairly easy to determine how a given level of production translates from one league to another. Thanks to the work of Gabriel Desjardins of behindthenet.ca and Arctic Ice Hockey fame we have the ability to translate the performance of a given player in a particular league to an NHL equivalency.
A league equivalent point total basically says "based on what this player did in this league we would expect that production to translate to ____ in the NHL". I've applied the conclusions he's drawn to the Stars prospect pool. For other examples of where these translations have been applied click here, here, or here.
The equivalencies aren't guaranteed to come to fruition due to various factors such as ice time, usage, powerplay time, injuries, etc. The assumption is that over time the most productive players will get the most ice time. For each player I've taken their scoring totals and divided them by games played to get the scoring rate per game then multiplied that by 82 to estimate for a full NHL season.
I've more or less ignored age since scoring rates remain pretty constant once they get established. They generally get established in a player's early 20's. The outliers are your high variability teenagers and guys over 24. This isn't to say that the following players can't develop more. They certainly could. This is just an approximation of where they are now.
I've broken the players into two groups to make viewing the information easier. The first group is all defensemen. The second group is all forwards. To see who the next stars of the Stars are follow the jump.
The translation factors I've used can be found here. The actual translation factors are .83 (KHL), .78 (SEL, Swedish Elite League), .54 (SM-Liiga, Finland), and .29 (Canadian Juniors). In each table the first numbers you will find are the player's updated stats as of Monday February 6th. The second batch of numbers are translations based on their actual production this season. The first group of players we're going to consider are the Stars defensive prospects. They're a diverse group. Some feel they have a lot of potential. Others feel that they offer limited upside. The projected points for each Stars defensive prospect over an 82 game NHL season are as follows:
| POS | NAME | LEAGUE | GP | G | A | P | Eq G | Eq A | Eq P |
| D | LARSEN,PHILIP | AHL | 12 | 1 | 9 | 10 | 3 | 27 | 30 |
| D | BENN,JORDIE | AHL | 41 | 8 | 12 | 20 | 7 | 11 | 18 |
| D | JOKIPAKKA,JYRKI | SM-LIIGA | 40 | 6 | 6 | 12 | 7 | 7 | 14 |
| D | DILLON,BRENDEN | AHL | 45 | 2 | 14 | 16 | 2 | 11 | 13 |
| D | VANCE,TROY | QMJHL | 43 | 3 | 17 | 20 | 2 | 9 | 11 |
| D | OLEKSIAK,JAMIE | OHL | 42 | 6 | 11 | 15 | 3 | 6 | 10 |
| D | KLINGBERG,JOHN | SM-LIIGA | 20 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 6 |
| D | THERIAU,ALEX | WHL | 52 | 0 | 9 | 9 | 0 | 4 | 4 |
| D | NEMETH,PATRIK | SEL | 36 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 4 |
Philip Larsen heads the Stars defensive group. I used his AHL numbers from this season for the projection. It's a small sample, and only slightly higher than you would otherwise suspect. In his final European season he translated to roughly a 20 point NHL defenseman. Currently, his NHL pace is in the 18-20 range. He's young and can develop though. Most of his development will probably come defensively though since he hasn't ever shown an elite offensive ceiling. 20-30 points from a defensively responsible defenseman who performs well in transition would be a nice late round find by the Stars brass.
Of the remaining defenders on the list Jordie Benn, Jyrki Jokipakka, and Brenden Dillon offer the most current offensive promise despite not exactly setting the world on fire. Benn, the elder statesmen of the group, has performed at a much higher rate this season than any previous season of his career. When he was up he looked very steady defensively. He looks like he fits in at the back of a roster, and there's nothing wrong with that. Dillon, while three years younger than Benn, has a similar ceiling. In his final year of juniors with the Seattle Thunderbirds he was producing at a 20 point NHL pace vs. a slight drop off in the AHL to a 13 point NHL pace. Solid, but unspectacular with room to grow given his age. Jokipakka is having a solid season playing against grown men in Finland. His strengths reportedly are his hockey sense and poise. Translating that to English: he's going to need to make the NHL on the strength of his defensive game barring a developmental leap.
Jamie Oleksiak is the lightning rod of the group. He hasn't produced much offensively in his young career. This season has been his best offensive year, and that has been good for only 17 points in 42 junior games. He's a developing project with good mobility, but he has a long way to go to develop the kind of offensive upside the Stars think he has. He has age on his side, but if he's going to develop the offensive game that is ultimately expected to arrive then you would like to see him take a few more steps forward over the next season and a half.
| POS | NAME | LEAGUE | GP | G | A | P | Eq G | Eq A | Eq P |
| F | SMITH,AUSTIN | ECAC | 28 | 30 | 15 | 45 | 36 | 18 | 54 |
| F | LINDGREN,PERTTU | SM-LIIGA | 34 | 8 | 20 | 28 | 10 | 26 | 36 |
| F | CHIASSON,ALEX | HOCKEY EAST | 24 | 10 | 16 | 26 | 14 | 22 | 36 |
| F | SMITH.REILLY | CCHA | 28 | 20 | 8 | 28 | 24 | 10 | 34 |
| F | WINKLER,SCOTT | WCHA | 23 | 6 | 15 | 21 | 9 | 22 | 31 |
| F | GUPTILL,ALEX | CCHA | 30 | 14 | 13 | 27 | 16 | 15 | 30 |
| F | VINCOUR,TOMAS | AHL | 18 | 11 | 4 | 15 | 22 | 8 | 30 |
| F | FRASER,MATT | AHL | 43 | 21 | 14 | 35 | 18 | 12 | 29 |
| F | STRANSKY,MATEJ | WHL | 51 | 28 | 27 | 55 | 13 | 13 | 26 |
| F | SCEVIOUR,COLTON | AHL | 44 | 8 | 21 | 29 | 7 | 17 | 24 |
| F | GLENNIE,SCOTT | AHL | 41 | 9 | 14 | 23 | 8 | 12 | 20 |
| F | RITCHIE,BRETT | OHL | 13 | 6 | 5 | 11 | 11 | 9 | 20 |
| F | MCKENZIE,CURTIS | CCHA | 29 | 4 | 9 | 13 | 5 | 10 | 15 |
| F | ESPOSITO,ANGELO | AHL | 24 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 5 | 8 | 12 |
| F | MOLIN,EMIL | SEL | 28 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 7 | 9 |
The forward group is much more promising. The Stars, who severely lack depth scoring, appear to have a lot of it coming. The most interesting name going for Stars fans currently is all-of-a-sudden offensive dynamo Austin Smith of Colgate. Collegiate hockey is a tough business. Prospects are playing against physically mature players instead of other kids as they would in the Canadian CHL. The bulk of the Stars forward prospects are playing in collegiate leagues, and a few are excelling. 23 year old Austin Smith currently leads the NCAA in scoring.
Smith leads the NCAA in scoring on the strength of his giant shot totals. The kid loves to shoot. He has 30 goals in 28 games which puts him on a 36 goal NHL pace. His assist total, I imagine, would do nothing but go up playing with superior teammates since he probably grips it and rips if 90% of the time with Colgate. 36 goals is a ridiculous translation, and would be much more impressive if he were a few years younger. However, he's been on 40+ point paces for the rest of his collegiate career, and now he's shooting more so he's definitely a legitimate prospect. How high his ultimate ceiling is can be debated though.
Reilly Smith is worth keeping an eye on too. So far in his college career he has proven to be a lethal goal scorer. His NHL equivalent goal total for this season sits at 24 with the same lagging assist total as Austin Smith. Alex Chiasson is another potential depth scorer to keep an eye on. His tough physical game lends itself to the bottom six of an NHL forward corps. If he is able to chip in offensively he can be a very nice roster addition in the near future. The Stars are also very high on Alex Guptill. He and Scott Winkler both project for 30 points. Ditto Matt Fraser.
The two other forwards I'd like to focus on are Tomas Vincour and Colton Sceviour. We all know what Vincour brings defensively, and I wanted to point out that those offensive projections are based on a small sample of games. They're encouraging though. I think in his limited NHL time he's at least proven that he can play the NHL game. Sceviour is an interesting case too. He's known for his defensive ability, but he doesn't seem to be very high in the pecking order with the Stars brass. He has 29 points in 44 AHL games to go with a defensive skill set. He's also only 22 years old. These are the type of guys a rebuilding-type team needs to break in on the bottom lines going forward. There is little reason to spend extraneous money on the fourth line when you have AHL talent with the ability to perform. The point of a farm system is to make sure the NHL roster stays deep. I'd like to see the Stars tap into that depth soon.
I hope this has been informational. While none of these translations are guaranteed to predict future production, they do describe where the particular players are at on the development curve fairly accurately. Obviously various factors can influence those one way or the other, but I think these projections give an interesting baseline of what the Stars have in their system. The lack of actualized offensive production, particularly from the blueline, is a major reason why most pundits feel the Stars system isn't anything special. I think the Stars forward depth is getting overlooked though. They don't have elite talent in the forward core, but if you can fill out most of your bottom of your roster cheaply it's easier to go find more expensive top tier talent (though ideally you'd develop cheap elite talent). The Stars have the makings of a decent prospect pool, but the risky offensive potential of Oleksiak, the lowered stock of Scott Glennie, and the lack of premium picks in both 07 and 08 limit the value of the Stars system in quite a few eyes. There is some potential here though, and I hope this exercise sheds a little more light on from where it could be coming.
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Fun stuff
You should do it again at the end of the season for the larger sample size.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 9, 2012 1:19 PM CST reply actions
I will...the college guys won't change much though.
Larsen and Vincour are in the NHL so not much can be done there either.
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I'm interested in Chiasson.
Moar power forwards plz
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so
We really don’t have a D prospect with huge offensive potential. Lame!! I still say JO was not the rt pick last year. We had a chance to draft the mckenzie kid that was drafted by Chicago rt. I could be wrong. I really like the college kids. I really want the stars to go young next year. Yeah, they’ll take there lumps, but who doesn’t. It seemed to work for Nashville, of course they have a world class goalie.
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 1:51 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
So the obvious question would be
If we applied this method to the Stars prospects, say, 5 years ago…how close are the numbers to reality?
Interesting stuff. I was thinking something along these lines a few weeks ago but thought that would be way too simple. Shows what I know.
Oh, if we want a where are they now kind of thing I can make that happen pretty easily
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Now that's an
awesome project for Josh I’d like to see.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 9, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
It's just a matter of determining who should be counted.
Ivan Vishnevskiy, for instance…
45 points in 45 games in 07/08 in the QMJHL…24 point NHL pace
24 points in 51 games in09/10 with Texas….16 point NHL pace…..33% drop
8 points in 48 KHL games this year……11 point NHL pace
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Oops lets see projections and then NHL stats for Brunnstrom lol
"The Dallas Cowboys announced they have released Jerry Jones."
44 point pace based on his SEL stats
19 point NHL career equivalent in the AHL, but as you get older those equivalencies drop quickly in the minors.
We all know why it didn’t translate.
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not really
goalies are wildcards which is why they dont really go high in the first round frequently
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 9, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
oops
I know we like to bash Fowler, but he woulda looked real good in a stars uni
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 2:46 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, like you just said: goalies are wildcards
That’s why I was upset when they drafted one so high (Campbell) in place of someone like Fowler.
No.
Goalie performance is very erratic.
If you think about where goalies are drafted versus how they perform you’ve pretty much got the problem in a nutshell. Lehtonen/DiPietro/Luongo/Fleury were taken way high and have varying levels of performance from awful (DiPietro) to average/above average (Lehtonen) to your star types.
Rinne, Thomas, Turco, Miller, Quick etc etc etc etc x100000 all came later in the draft. It just varies because save percentage bounces up and down so much from year to year.
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Goalies
are to the NHL what running backs are in the NFL. You can get them in later rounds and there are plenty of pretty good ones that can get the job done.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 9, 2012 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's funny because
Austin Smith was known as a passer, but ever since he realized what happens when you shoot the puck, he scores more goals. Funny how that stuff works, right?
So you shoot more....and score more goals?
That can’t be true.
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Fun article!
I have a fascination with prospects. An analysis of old prospects vs. current production would be interesting to me, too. I’ll bet Jamie Benn ends up out pacing his projections significantly, as I bet he some day surpasses the 82 points he scored his final year of juniors.
Oh sure, Benn has smashed his projections.
08 – 31
09 – 34
10 – NHL
Those projections are the average you’d expect. Some guys will go way over, others will go way under. Scott Glennie, for instance, isn’t that far away from being exactly on pace.
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Informational?
That’s a new one to me but it was certainly informative as always. I keep hearing a lot around here about Austin Smith but not much elsewhere in Stars media land, is that just because he is still just a prospect and could fizzle out?
He's 23
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I guess
Only in hockey is 23 a bad #
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 5:16 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
23 is old for a player not in professional hockey
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He's 23 and didn't really have this big of an offensive game until this year.
But…he has some potential.
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by Brandon Worley on Feb 9, 2012 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
I think he has quite a bit of potential
He’s just going to need to hit the ground running when he turns pro….in what, a month?
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so
He will go to Austin after his season is done. How does that work, and will he be the only one. I’ve always thought late-bloomer is a bad wrap. Except I remember when junior lessard arrived, and he was the hobey baker winner. That didn’t quite work out. Is it rare for college seniors to make an impact
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 11:08 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
*will he
Its supranatural, you know, a higher level than supernatural
by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 11:12 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Smith isn't really a late bloomer per se.
He’s produced every year…this year is just special since he’s scoring more goals. I don’t know what they have in store for him, but being a college player, they could pretty easily sign him up when his season ends to begin his professional career.
Lessard never had trouble scoring. He was on the 30 point plateau in two different AHL seasons early on, and a very high level in college. He only ever got 27 games in the NHL for whatever reason. Hard to establish yourself with so little ice time, but I forget the circumstances surrounding it.
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that was a heavy veteran team(older)
Kind of like all the stars teams. His confidence got killed really quickly. I think the only time I remember a quasi youth movement in Dallas was when we had mitts, hagman, and jokinen all up at once. Which is still hard to believe.
So AS has to sign a ELC. Is that how it works. Hopefully he can get enough games to play in in Austin to project something as a pro. He is an American born player, that is my biggest like about him(besides his potential). Sounds funny, but I want another American to cheer for on MY team. We’re just 55 calorie lite on US players & prospects
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 7:55 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Austin Smith is from Dallas. He'd be the first from Dallas to be drafted by Dallas to make the Stars.
Re: Lessard it wasn’t just because they were a veteran team. I remember the defensive issues like Erin mentioned. I just don’t remember how pronounced they were or what the other circumstances surrounding his situation were.
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I think
with him being older and dominating as an older senior, it could be(hopefully) a sign that he’s just ready for more. He might be more NHL ready and WYSIWYG than other rookies. So if he is going to be an NHL guy I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens next year and he has some solid numbers. Would be nice, it’s possible. I made a post awhile back comparing him and Matt Read who’s having a big rookie season out of college in Philly and is 25.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 10, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, and I think I agreed to a certain extent. They seem similar.
It just depends on how much of a chance he gets. Any slip up that leads to him not hitting the ground running would be problematic given his age.
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I didn't wanna state the obvious. but him being from Dallas is pretty freaking kewl.
Pretty easy to get behind the kid. Also, if lessards D was that atrocious no way he was sticking around on Tipps team
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 10:24 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Tough to truly judge Defensive players
using this methodology since there is really no way to judge their defensive capability — or is there???? Also, once a d-man gets to the NHL, there are more adept scorers in front of him and that means a lot more assists for d-men who are shooters.
The thing I find a little disturbing is that using your methodology our #1 prospect is projected to score 54 points at the NHL level, with the next in line putting up 36 points. I think that is awful. Maybe I’m misinterpreting your numbers. On our current roster Benn has 46, Eriksson 44, Ryder 36 and Ribs 34 with roughly 40% of the season remaining. In fact, extrapolating (albeit roughly) our top 6 to a full season, Ott scores 34; Morrow 30; Benn 64; Eriksson 62; Ryder 50; Ribs 47. Morrow is explainable due to injury, but using those numbers only ONE of our prospects even cracks the top 6 forwards and one on the bubble who is roughly the equivalent of Ott, and most here have been saying Otter shouldn’t be on the top six anyway.
I’m bad at math so if I’m wrong, please correct me; but this has really brought my already somber mood down to a new low concerning the future of the Stars.
It wasn't meant to judge defensive players.
But it’s easier to learn defense than to learn how to score.
The Stars haven’t used premium picks on offensive talent. Even Glennie at his height had relatively low projections. One forward translating to 54 points really isn’t bad. Top 6 forwards don’t grow on trees, especially with late round picks.
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Expanding on that...
If you look at some of the examples I linked to the Stars forward prospect group compares favorably to all three.
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That wasn't my intention
to suggest you were hard on the defensive players; was just acknowledging that it’s tough to rate that aspect of their game. Since you brought up Glennie, my thought was that he was sort of picked to be a top six forward. His scoring with the Wheat Kings was pretty incredible and even at the time of the draft many were saying he was the elite scorer between he and Schenn – with Schenn bringing more of the total package. I think he has been a terrible disappointment. The last three years we’ve had fairly high draft picks and went after a d-man for his size, a goalie we won’t see for several more years, and Glennie. Surely the Stars should have fared a little better.
faired a lot better.
We’re enamored with size. I still think glennie can be a top 6 forward. Better wingers & full health should show that. Not drafting fowler and then watching him get drafted by anaheim was like a kick in the nutz. I try to block out last years draft because we should have drafted one of the centers. I liked everything I read about the mckenzie kid(ugh). And like I said we chose size & skating over other hockey abilities. There is a reason Detroit is who they are. Puck Possession. That is not a secret
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 9, 2012 11:37 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
When you translate his scoring from the WHL to the NHL you get about 30 points.
You’d like for there to have been more development over the past few years, but he just stayed where he was. Reports are that he’s improving in the AHL, but he still isn’t producing enough to suggest that he’s going to come up here and be a top 6 guy. Anything is possible, but it seems unlikely.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
And I realize that wasn't your intention....just pointing out that it's all based on offense.
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totally get it
I just hate to think the one time we got to pick a top 10 player we made a reach, and it didn’t work out. Most NHL teams seem to be set back when there top 10 picks don’t work out.
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 8:05 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
like you said "there violently against playing young guys"
Classic btw.
So he is kind of an underdog. How long does he play in cedar park, if he doesn’t make the roster out of training camp. Also, I havnt seen him play, I only go by what I read from INCH or collegehockey.com.
Compared to the Texas stars guys where would you put him in an order.
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by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 11:47 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I hope that made sense
Its supranatural, you know, a higher level than supernatural
by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 11:52 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
We'd need Brandon to jump in on where he fits down there. He's seen him quite a bit.
You’d think he would need to be a top 6 guy immediately given that his skill set is mainly offensive, and who knows how long he’ll be in Cedar Park. If he signs when his season is over and makes an impressions I don’t think there’s any reason he couldn’t make the team out of camp.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I get more excited talking about prospects than this team, and thats harsh
Its supranatural, you know, a higher level than supernatural
by Bayouboy99 on Feb 10, 2012 2:30 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

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