Dallas Stars Drop 4-1 Decision To Phoenix Coyotes
by Brad Gardner on Feb 7, 2012 10:15 PM CST
in Dallas Stars Game Recaps
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PrintThe question coming out of the All-Star break was "Who will go on a run?" Who would catch fire and grab that eighth seed in the Western Conference? It could be the Coyotes. Phoenix, winners of four of five now, take partial possession of the West's final playoff seed with a 4-1 win over the Dallas Stars.
"This is a team we're tied with, said Glen Gulutzan on Tuesday morning before this one. "This is direct competition. This is a team that wants what we want. This is a big game for us. They played last night. We're fresh. This is a real big game for us."
Playing last night is proving to not be a big deal for the Coyotes, who improve to 5-3-1 on the second night of back to backs with tonight's win. Compare that to the Stars' 0-8-1 record in that situation and this game paints a good picture of why these two teams seem to be headed in opposite directions right now.
The Coyotes would open the scoring about five minutes into the first period when Keith Yandle threw a wrist shot in from the point that appeared to deflect rather gratuitously off of Alex Goligoski and past Kari Lehtonen to give Phoenix a 1-0 lead after one.
A goal, a save, and a power play in the second period seemed to signal a change of momentum for the Stars. Michael Ryder skated through three retreating Phoenix defenders two minutes in and beat Mike Smith with a brilliant wrist shot under the blocker to tie the game. Lehtonen would then respond with a "save of the year" candidate at the other end and a four minute high sticking penalty to Mikkel Boedker gave the Stars all the time they needed to take the lead and turn momentum for good, but they were unable to connect and put just five pucks on net in the entire double power play.
An Eric Nystrom turnover inside the Stars' blue line would lead to the game winner for the Coyotes shortly thereafter, and Phoenix would add two third period goals, cruising to a 4-1 decision and a huge two points.
This one came down, on some level, to the Stars just losing too many one on one battles. The Coyotes compete level was there tonight. The Stars are still looking for theirs.
Dallas actually out-shot the Coyotes 29-24 in the loss, but Phoenix had the lions share of the quality chances. The Stars now face another back to back on the road this week as they travel to Columbus and Buffalo, before another big tilt with the Kings here this weekend.
More thoughts after the jump...
The Wild dropped a 3-1 game to the lowly Blue Jackets. It appeared the perfect chance for the Stars to take advantage, beat the Coyotes in regulation, and grab eighth place all to themselves. It could have been a huge spring board heading into a back to back later this week. Instead they're stuck scratching their heads.
The Stars are now just 3-5-1 against teams that are on the second night of a back to back. They cannot seem to take advantage of what should be a favorable situation.
Offense is the culprit still, even with Jamie Benn and Mike Ribeiro back in the lineup. It was easy to point to that before the break but that's two straight in which the Stars have managed just a single tally.
Over their last ten games the Stars have scored1, 0, 2, 1, 2, 1, 6, 2, 1, and 1. The outburst against the Ducks was fun but it looks like an aberration now as Dallas struggles to find the net, or even put pucks on net. Healthy or unhealthy, That's 17 goals. In 10 games. With a six goal outburst, even. I'll let you do the math.
What's even more frustrating is that over that stretch they've actually only allowed 24 goals. 2.4 goal against per game is something you can live with quite easily, but when you can't find the net it's a huge obstacle to overcome.
A trap game in Columbus now awaits them as they try not to think about their own back to back woes too much and fall prey to a team that bested the Wild tonight.
- "A lot of guys in black jerseys standing around," said Razor on the broadcast at one point. The Coyotes lack talent and any recognizable super stars but they were by far the peskier of the two teams, speeding around and winning puck battles. That the Coyotes played last night was completely forgotten. They appeared to be the much fresher, more confident, poised, prepared hockey team. At 5-3-1 now on the second night of a back to back, they do not use it as an excuse, and they've moved ahead of several teams now in the playoff race.
- Mike Smith's puck handling - Six years ago I would have told you that two out of every three goaltenders in this league would eventually be handling the puck a la Marty Turco. That's the direction in which things seemed to be headed. Here we are in 2012 and Mike Smith's puck prowess is still sticking out. It would have made me nostalgic if it weren't so annoying when it's happening to the team you're rooting for.
- 11,162 tonight, and didn't appear very close to that. This on the heels of a sellout against the Minnesota Wild on Saturday night. What explains a 7,500 person swing in attendance? Is the reality of the situation that the day of the week and the opponent are bigger factors than the hockey team itself? I hope not.
- Larsen has points in 4 of 6 games and is really starting to contribute in that regard, but he also is suffering from the same turnover problems plaguing the rest of the team. Through two periods he and Goligoski were leading the Stars defense in ice time by a mile, though in part to the failed four minute power play that doomed things.
- The Stars are now 2-2-0 against the Coyotes on the season and have just two chances more to affect the race between the two in a positive way. They'd need to win both to do it since the Coyotes have earned six points from just two victories as the losses came in the shootout. Dallas has earned only four from Phoenix.
- Minnesota lost tonight 3-1 to the lowly Blue Jackets. The Kings solved their scoring woes and put three in the net to beat the Lightning on the road. The Avalanche passed the Stars with a win over Chicago, and of course you know what the Coyotes did. The Stars go from 9th to 11th, instead of up to 8th.
- Kari Lehtonen is good. He kept the Stars in it for as long as he could, and when he went down the place went silent. Once again, you can't pin this one on him. That save in the second period is one you'll see on highlight reels for years to come.
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i'm afraid the Stars will play _just_ good enough to make 9th.
and remove any possible need to make moves that will help us next year.
I think we’ve got some keepers. and i love this team.
but i think we’ve got some stinkers. and we’d be better served moving pieces and preparing for 2012 than fighting for something i don’t think we can reach, not at this level of play.
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 10:22 PM CST reply actions
haha. so much for italics.
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I had the chances as 8-1 PHX after one.
Stars official scorers had it as 4-2.
I don’t even….what is this…
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
2 with 15 mins left in the 2nd
Ribeiro and then the Ryder goal
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I'll Be Curious
to see Josh’s stats on the Ribeiro line’s scoring chances. It felt like every shift they gave up an odd man rush and created nothing outside of a chance for Loui at the end of the second.
I'm only through 1 period.
Ribeiro has created one so far. Not sure how many are against them. A few.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
On that note...just saw the 2 on 1 after the Ryder goal
Ribeiro stopped skating when Whitney was wide open. Could’ve easily caught him before the pass got there. Just a shame.
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I felt like that play was representative of his effort tonight
Seemed like every defensive play he stopped moving his feet and poked at the puck. Hard to win puck battles when you don’t stop on the puck.
Most of them quit moving their feet at in opportune times.
The PP and defensively in particular.
I know it doesn’t matter, but I’d like to see more of Vincour/Wandell. They worked hard tonight (from what I’ve seen so far) and created offense….just didn’t get the puck to the net. They at least worked though.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I agree
about Vincour at least. He created and Wandell seems to create as well, but I feel like he (Wandell) has had his chances to be moved up the line up. It made no sense to me to split up the third line and put Vincour on the fourth line. I’d love to see them put Loui back with Benn and Ryder and Vincour and Ott (I guess) with Ribeiro.
I think "created offense" was a misspeak.
They created chances for offense to occur. They just didn’t direct things to the net. Vincour in particular. He had chances to take it to the rack but deferred. Someone needs to get in his ear and tell him to rip it. He and Benn are both too timid. SHOOT THE PILL.
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Also about the PP
do they not understand that standing and passing is pretty easy to defend. It’s pretty easy to stand in shooting lanes if they stay the same for all 2 minutes. For the beginning of the double minor, they were moving both the puck and their feet a little at least.
Knowing what you're doing wrong and fixing it are two different things.
They know.
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I know
It’s just this has been a problem all season. It’s not new. Also I feel like Benn is underused on the PP. Also another place that someone needs to explain the need to shoot.
Tired of the lack of
Effort from the boys. Hard to watch tonight they played with no passion. I am not a hockey expert but I would guess you can’t win many games giving up shots from the middle of the ice, losing puck battles and not skating. Thought they were all standing around tonight. Soooo Frustrated in lack of effort and Peskyness. I for one am ready to either be bad with youth or trade trade trade to to get some Defense and scoring.
by Bubbachewie on Feb 7, 2012 10:26 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm not judging
I’m just saying “oh boy” because I didn’t know Glen Gulutzan memes existed
by DFWTrojanTuba on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
They do now
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
x
Gulutzan: “There are statement games in wins and losses, this one was bad, could’ve been in 8th place. Our effort is hurting us right now.”
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
^^^this
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Gulutzan called out the effort
I will eat my words
by DFWTrojanTuba on Feb 7, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
He has been lately.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
looks like you ate your words.
"He punched the highlights out of her hair.... He punched the HIGHLIGHTS out of her hair!!!" -- Young Neil
Souray also called out the effort
Of course he was in a position to do something about it during the game and didn’t so….
Oh the irony....
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
note... this is not pointed at gully maybe a different person in the middle would be better
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Kari isn't as good as people want to make him out to be.
Solid, but not elite.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Kari is not elite he is slightly above league average
but he is the only player that is consistent every night, you know what your getting beforehand
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
I get that, but he was definitely the best player out there.
he usually is.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
He, Benn, Loui and Vincour/4th liners are the usual suspects
As far as all around work goes.
I don’t feel like Ryder loafs…he just isn’t good defensively.
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I feel like Ryder should shoot more.
They should all shoot more. Fire everything. Make the goalie make saves, cough up rebounds. We’ve got to get ugly goals. All this passing around looking for the perfect shot crap is getting old. Leads to too many one and done opportunities.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying to never set up and pass it around, but
they all seem to want to defer the responsibility to shoot to someone else.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
The problem with shooting more is what happens when no one is at the net to pick up rebounds?
Ryder fires the puck. I thought he played well tonight.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I was actually yelling about that tonight at the game.
We had two guys behind the net, one at the half-wall and two at the point. The Yotes had them way spread out.
That was one occurrence, but it felt like they were out of sync all night.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
They're half a step behind the pace at all times.
If Vincour would just take it to the net they’d have a secondary scoring threat. Dude is right at the net ALL game when he’s on the ice.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I don't know how you can make that judgement.
Is he top 5? No. Based on his body of work, you can’t call him that. But just solid? Slightly above league average? Come on. He has a ~2.50GAA and a .920+ save percentage on a bad team. He’s consistently the only reason we are in games.
He has the natural skill to compete with any goalkeeper in the league.
Of goalies with 20 or more games he's 18th in save percentage at a little bit over league average.
Considering that goalie performance fluctuates, and that there as so few elite goalies…yes Lehtonen is a tick above average. He looks better because he sees a ton of shots.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Yup. He certainly is solid.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Well,
he’s basically tied (.919 or .920) with like 6 other guys, so you could say he’s basically tied for about 14th. Before last night I think he was .923 which is tied with a bunch of guys around top 10. He had well below .900 last night yet wasn’t bad at all. Have to take into account the quality of shots he faces as well. I think he’s top 10 in the league personally, not elite but very good. Bottom line he’s good enough IMO to goaltend on a contender. If he played with Boston for example he wouldn’t be a liabilty for them. And I bet you a team like Chicago would love to have him.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
You're making a bunch of irrelevant claims.
I never said he sucked. I said he’s slightly above average.
Outside of your top two or three goalies anyone else is a crapshoot from year to year. See Elliott, Brian.
Goalie play is very erratic from year to year because save percentage ALWAYS regresses back to average (.910-.911) over the long haul except in the most elite cases.
Kari isn’t in that elite class.
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Nothing irrelevant
So there’s nothing between elite and slightly above average?
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
That's where we're clashing I guess...
To me there’s certainly an area between slightly above average and elite.
Before last night, I believe he had a 2.38 and .923; Almost identical to Pekka Rinne, who I assume you would classify as elite. Then compare quality of the teams.
You put Kari on Nashville or Phoenix, his statistics will be deflated (or inflated, depending on stat). Mike Smith, who has similar stats, is not better than Kari, or really even close IMO.
can we just make this the Ticket Post-Game Thread?
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 10:38 PM CST reply actions
I've arrived at quite the conundrum
I don’t want to blame the players because i dont think the coaching staff uses them properly
But, I dont want to blame the coaching staff because the overall talent of the roster isn’t that good.
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 10:40 PM CST reply actions
The coaching staff has improved their management quite a bit in the past two weeks.
Not much they can do if the players aren’t listening.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Two weeks is great but will it be done consistently?
a month+ and ill be convinced that gully is adapting to the nhl level
it is however a step in the right direction
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
They've made significant changes.
It’s on the players to perform.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Players not listening is also a coaching problem...
But how do they make them listen?
@AdamBath on Twitter
Players that tune out a coach in less than half a season are miserable professionals.
I hope that isn’t the case.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
"Players that tune out a coach in less than half a season are miserable professionals."
True, but you can’t fire the players. If, for some reason, the players are not responding to Gully and have tuned him out, then I don’t see any point retaining him any further than this season.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Feb 8, 2012 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, you can. You don't keep blowing through coaches. No one worth a damn would accept a job with that much turnover.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
"Yes, you can. You don't keep blowing through coaches."
“Yes, you can”? Even if the players have completely tuned a coach out? That makes no sense. How do you “Yes, you can” it? Please explain.
FTR, we’d not be in this ‘blowing through coaches’ situation if our Einstein of a GM didn’t fire Tippett (who was still under contract) for no fault of his and replace him with a has-been.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Feb 8, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
If a group of players has tuned out numerous coaches (including a rookie 50 games in) it isn't the coach's fault.
They’re a sorry group of professionals that need to be sent elsewhere.
It isn’t like Gulutzan is a bad guy. He seems like an honest hard-working guy. If you think they’ve tuned THAT guy out THAT fast then they’re sorry professionals. He doesn’t deserve to hung out to dry like that on a human level.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
"They’re a sorry group of professionals that need to be sent elsewhere."
Which is exactly what I said is HARD TO DO vs firing one coach. I never said Gully is a bad guy or a horrible coach, but if the team has tuned him out completely, then there’s no point proceeding further with him. It is a matter of what can be realistically done in such a situation.
“If you think they’ve tuned THAT guy out THAT fast then they’re sorry professionals.”- I guess they are, but neither are they school-kids in need of a whip-cracking principal to behave during Math class.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Feb 8, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
You can't just ignore the fact that constantly firing coaches makes this an even less attractive job.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I am not ignoring what you imply...
….but what can you do if indeed Gully has been tuned out? Can you tell me what is it that can be done in such a situation? At least answer me this.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Feb 8, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
So...
Yeah…
What the heck was that?
by WingnutInStarsCountry on Feb 7, 2012 10:41 PM CST reply actions
Wasn't drive and will what Gully was supposed to bring to the team
You know, the thing Crawford couldn’t. It’s always a player problem, obviously, but when two coaches fail—and the second of them slated as being much better at getting his team to actually work—it makes me wonder when it becomes an issue of player personnel.
We need to put Eriksson back on a line with Benn and Ryder
Ott can’t hit an empty net, and Ribeiro isn’t contributing much offensively so we might as well put a decent defensive forward on his line.
I Hear Dandy Don singing . . .
Turn Out The Lights, The Party’s Over!
Turn out the lights
The party’s over.
They say that all
Good things must end.
Call it a night,
The party’s over ,
And tomorrow starts
The same old thing again!
Bob Sturm
is hitting the Free Agent Nail on the head right now: how do we convince a Free Agent in his prime to come be a part of THIS team?
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 10:53 PM CST reply actions
You don't.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
This team is at least 2 years away.
So yeah hard to get people to buy in. Especially because the core of good young players at the NHL level is so small right now.
I can already sense it...
….a SO win against Columbus followed by an atrocious display in Buffalo. #peskystars, my arse!
This is what failure looks like.
Sizing be damned. This is 2 seconds before Vrbata beat Eriksson in front of the net for that disgusting 2nd period goal.
Nystrom and Grossman are doing nothing. The Coyotes isolated Ribeiro and used him like a pylon. The point passed to the center, back to the wing and gained 40 feet with ease.
Awful.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Well Loui's defense on that play wasn't spectacular either.
Standing next to someone is not defending them in the slot. So team defense fail!
Loui got beat by a guy who now has 25 goals in early Feb.
He screwed up…it happens. He was where he needed to be though, and it’s hard to play defense on an island too. I don’t know what Nystrom was doing.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Sorry
Should’ve been more clear. I just think Loui hasn’t been playing his best lately and that play is an example, when he’s on his game he makes it. Also it looked like he tried to tie him up as the pass came in but Vrbata had position.
Seems like that happens to whoever is on Ribeiro's wing lately...
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Unrelated to this play
This line was caught multiple times with three deep in the offensive zone.
All the more reason to swap Ott and Eriksson
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Rebuilding isn’t going to be fast or easy
But I’m willing to wait, given what I’ve seen from JN and TG. I know it’s frustrating to see this year’s team flounder, but I get sick of people calling for Joe to fire the coach after only a half a season, and I get tired of the same people getting angry because this year’s team isn’t top tier. The team just went through 3 years of ownership hell, where just about every aspect of the team was allowed to decay away to the point that it could barely function. They’re not going to restore things to contender status overnight.
I believe they’ll have this thing turned around in 2 years, because there’s a good solid core of good players already here, a lot of talent down in the farm system that will start making their way up, and a lot of financial flexibility as large contracts start to expire. We’re not locked into anybody we don’t want past the end of next year.
Who has said they need to fire Gulutzan?
That’s a minority viewpoint.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I counted at least 2 in the GDT tonight
I agree it’s not the majority, but it’s definitely being said.
I think the debate of whether or not he was the best hire is legitimate
No reason to bail on him now though, and the fact that they aren’t playing as hard as they can for him says infinitely more about the players than the coach.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I question whether or not his system is working here.
It’s not even ketchup bottle offense anymore. There’s nothing. Maybe that’s what happens when you tear apart the chemistry? Nystrom should never have left the DVO-line, Eriksson needs with Benn and maybe add Vincour with them?
I wonder what the season would have been like with Crawford’s system…
The checking line isn't that great as is. They're a fourth line though I think Dvorak fits nicely as a checking 3rd liner.
So I don’t care about that.
I don’t know what about the system doesn’t work though, and I don’t know that anyone can draw conclusions when they don’t work hard on a night to night basis. Who can even say?
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Frankly
It’s one I’m starting to agree with. He looks out of his depth and the team is somewhat less than motivated.
I don't know what else he's supposed to do outside of let the Vincours of the world have more ice time.
He’s called them out on multiple occasions. They’ve all admitted that they don’t try as hard as they should. I think the blame falls more on the players more than it does Gulutzan. He’s been relatively successful as a coach up until this season. I’m not ready to jump ship on him just yet.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
I think he's intelligent.
He also appears to be flexible to make changes if it might help them win more games. He deserves a fair shake.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Agreed.
He’s a young coach. And the fact that he’s willing to be flexible is definitely a good thing. Sometimes you’ve got to play a game that fits the guys you’ve got to work with.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
he's had success. but this is the highest court of the land.
he will eventually find success at this level. but with these parts? and the fire burning in these parts?
what does he do, read the Riot Act? has he lost the room? has the room lost itself?
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
The ones that seem to play the hardest are the ones that have been around him longest.
At least that’s what it looks like to me. Benn, Vincour, Larsen all seem to put forth the effort necessary.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
Benn played 24 games in the playoffs.
then made the club his first year up. i think we’re just at a place with talent dispersion that it would be wise to move the older, less talented pieces.
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
agree on moving the older pieces, talent be damned.
souray, robidas, grossman, morrow should all be prepared to be going somewhere (or at least be talked to about it if they have a NTC).
we’ve gotta get younger and move these guys while they still have some, if only a little, value.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
I know I'm in the minority
I’d probably shop anyone except Benn.
I’d like to see Sceviour, Vincour, and Fraser play down the stretch. Sceviour and Vincour are easliy better than the Stars current fourth liners.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
add eriksson and probably goligoski (mostly due to the extension he just got) and i'm right there with you.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'd shop both
They’ll be in their 30’s by the time this is ready to compete.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Loui is only 26
i might as well stop watching if were not going to be competing until loui is in his 30’s
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
we're one of the older teams in the league
and not near contention, this desperately needs to get done
by can we get hatcher back on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
He appears to be flexible
But he hasn’t been flexing
I disagree.
They’ve made significant deployment changes in the past two weeks. He can’t play the game for them though.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
i think it's either
A.) Come to Jesus meeting time or
B.) the reading of the Riot act to that locker room.
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
C. Chemistry shaking trade time
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
That's definitely what time it is.
I feel like it’s a knee-jerk reaction, but every other night feels like this.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
shudder
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
It sends a message
But yeah would be nice to have some depth.
Just saying
I can’t trust Dowell after that ignorant centering pass he pulled in our zone against the Wild.
Made me say “WTF are you doing?!” a tad bit loud up in 311 when he did that.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly he's not the only one making awful turnovers
His was just the most egregious of late
Oh, I know.
Every time we try to escape our own zone looks like an instant replay of failure.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
that no look backhand in our own zone vs Minnesota
insert .gif of that^^^
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
it wouldn't be so bad if it looked like they were trying hard.
but some nights they just go out there and stand around.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Just noticed Vincour was with Ribeiro/Eriksson late.
And what happens? He draws a penalty.
Get some Vincour.
Do the right thing Gully.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I always get excited when I see the 81 out there.
At this point he might as well get some solid ice time. What’s it gonna hurt? Not like they’re getting anywhere with the current scheme.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
It warms my heart to see people turning in favor of Vincour.
Dude’s a legit NHLer that needs to develop offensively, but at least he works his ass off. That can rub off on some guys.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Loui showed more offensively, and for a few years.
Vincour has the skills though…he just needs to apply them more.
The Ribeiro line looks significantly better late in the third with Vincour out there.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
that'd be a nice line
eriksson-benn-ryder
vincour-ribs-ott
nystrom-fiddler-dvorak
insert fourth line here
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
If you move Vincour up I think you keep Eriksson with them as a safety valve.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
i only put ott there so that they can win faceoffs.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
If someone smacks Vincour and tells him to take the puck to the net...sure
Otherwise nothing will change because there will be no one in any position to score.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
sadly with only a few minutes ice time, it likely won't rub off at all.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 7, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Unfortunately
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Traitor...
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
was about to...
http://pic.twitter.com/l1Ug6eQ8
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe this is how we convince free agents to come to Dallas?
Just gotta.. ya know.. make sure they are single men of course.
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by Art Middleton on Feb 8, 2012 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Am I the only one that wants to wake up to trade news?
One that sets up for the future since this season is obviously gone.
I have been for three years.
This Derek Morris goal pisses me off. It’s so fusdssdfsdscking easy to make the Stars lose track of players defensively.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Remember the good ole Brad Richards days?
Boy do I miss that…and 07-08.
No, because it makes me wonder what would've been of a Neal/Benn/Eriksson line
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
*Sore spot has been hit*
I’ll donate a whole dollar to help get Neal back.
x
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
*doh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uEE3ycDH9_8#t=53s
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by graylikethecolor on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Heh, Ribeiro was on the ice for two chances for, two chances against
Who knew.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
pathetic
all 4 centers were awful. one of benn’s worse games this year. ribs was okay. fiddler did hustle but looked like he could have taken a penalty every shift. when are we trading wandell.
ott is a great chirper but has no hands the last two months. loui looked lazy and also had a terrible game like benn did. nystrom skated and that was it. vincour has so much potential but might have less confidence than the ‘unsigned-swede-who-had-a hat-trick-his-1st-game-and-shall-not-be-named. petersen looked like he hasn’t played in 2 weeks (why did we sign dowell?). burish looked like a 4th liner but inexplicably played on the 3rd line.
and i’m not gonna talk about the defense.
pathetic, but ryder was our best player (i feel like this happened before a couple of months ago, where no one showed up except him and we got blown out…)
PATHETIC.
Great Recap
I really enjoyed reading it. Although I’m not sure I would agree with the statement Coyotes lack talent, Vrbata definitely has talent. Number 7 in the NHL for goals and Number 2 in game winning goals, and I believe he is number 1 in away goals. Other than that like I said I thought it was a great recap
Fire Gulutzan? Really?? My god
The guy hasn’t been given a fair shake of the stick yet, and tbh I’m happy with what he’s done so far.
The sodding players however, what. the. actual. expletive.
I know we only have two 1st liners, two second liners, maybe 4 third liners and about 15 million spare parts. I know we’re trying to use a defence with no legit first pairing dmen, a good PMD, a good up and coming PMD, Daley and more pylons than the UK electricity national grid own. At least Kari’s top 10 ish.
But honestly where is that heart. Morrow wasn’t even on the ice so I can’t even blame him. At least Eriksson looked like he wanted to be consumed by Poseidon himself when he got unlucky on that Vrbata goal.
I think Nieuwy needs to put out the trade statement, because its awful. I know it’s a budget team, I get that, and I know it’s heroically still in the playoff hunt, but yet again after the ASG were playing like a bunch of morons on day release.
As much as we blamed Crawford, as much as we’ll probably blame Gulutzan, it’s down to those veterans in the locker room who just aren’t kicking and screaming this team forward with effort. They should KNOW what to do against tired teams, but yet we only ever see 14, 21, 32, 36 and 81 doing anything sodding productive other than keeping the bench warm in the middle of February.
Maybe its an over-reaction, normally I don’t get this upset, but frankly I think if I’m Joe I look at this and see its not working anymore, and see what you can get for some of these veterans.
And to recap on a famous phrase by Mr. A. Hanson, “You can’t win anything with kids”, a certain Mr. A. Ferguson won the Premier League that season.
Tonight's forecast... a freeze!!!
James Neal - 45 points. Alex Goligoski - 46 points. Nieuwendyk lost?
by Great British Stars Fan on Feb 8, 2012 3:37 AM CST reply actions
God almighty
The lack of goals, or even chances created by this team is alarming. I snooze through most of our games, knowing that either -
1, We will lose a puck battle in the corner, and opponent will come away with it.
2, We play the puck to the point, we shoot into know where, and opponent moves up ice with it
3, We turn it over, (allot) and opponent creates an odd man rush
I’m tired of watching the same players, make the same mistakes over and over again. Im not going to name them as anyone with half a brain can see it night in night out.
The whole back to back thing is a COMPLETE cop out when you see PHX come in here with that type of effort. We lack so much leadership during in games its frightening. What are we good at consistently? I have no idea what this team!
The thing is i want to really like this team, but at the moment it is very painful to watch them even create a chance on net.
More and more fans are calling for a trade, or younger players to be put in the line up. A few weeks ago i was firmly against this, but another 5 or so games like this and im all for pulling the trigger and writing another season off with no playoffs.
Morning wasted, rant over!!!!
It doesn't help matters when our captain is always out of the lineup with injuries either.
"The Dallas Cowboys announced they have released Jerry Jones."
by T-rom on Feb 8, 2012 5:56 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
But considering the fact that we know our Captain is on the downside of his career,
this is the time for some of the young guns to show that they will be ready in the near future to step into his shoes. I suspect that is part of the reason why Loui and Jamie have sported the A at various times this season. Now, I don’t know what they are like in the room, but they need to be stepping up back there if they’re not already.
And the team needs to put forth a team effort and not let Jamie shoulder all of the load among the skaters. Otherwise, it becomes very obvious when Jamie has an off night (like last night) because no one else is doing crap either. And that goes for Kari as well being constantly looked at to pull the team’s ‘nads out of the fire all the time. We need to see more out of this team than Jamie and Kari dragging the rest of them kicking and screaming to the end of the season. Yeah, they almost pulled it off last season (more Jamie than Kari, because Kari was obviously tiring at the end there), but even if they do make it, they’re not going to get very far in the playoffs with two players shouldering all the load.
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If we continue like this
I am pretty sure we are going to be selling some of our veterans. I already assumed they were shopping Grossman but I can see possibly Robidas and/or Souray being put out there as trade bait. Forwards wise I can see them fishing to see what they could get for Morrow. Though I wouldn’t dare put Riberio up for grabs unless we got another centre back in return. I have pretty much accepted that the playoffs are unlikely now, especially playing like this, might as well get some young players/picks and get some of our younger players playing bigger minutes in the NHL. I’d like to see Vincour given a chance with more minutes. Maybe also if we are selling D-Men maybe it would be good to bring up Benn and/or Dillion up on a more permanent basis see how they handle playing what will be left of the season. But its up to Joe in the end, I just hope he makes the right decision for the future of the stars…
Oh as a side point, I don’t think we should fire Gully… He’s a young coach and will improve, hopefully, along side the younger team we are trying to build. Plus what kind of sign would it be if we fired a coach after only half a season…
that's racist.
He needs to be suspended for a game.
"He punched the highlights out of her hair.... He punched the HIGHLIGHTS out of her hair!!!" -- Young Neil
another thing
The few on here saying Kari isn’t elite need to look at some of the saves he’s having to make even in a 4-1 loss. The guy has, and continues to play out of his skin with next to no help at all. I dread to think where we would be if we didn’t has him!
by Matt Wright on Feb 8, 2012 7:48 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
He isn't elite.
He made a good save.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
He IS elite
You put any other goaltender in net in front of this team, and they too, will stop looking like elite goalies.
My first gut reaction is to Fire Gulutzan, but like some other postings, he needs more time and different players. But I will say this, Gulutzan was a top notch AHL coach, and it looks like the Stars are Playing AHL style hockey. This team is so over-matched in every game they play (with a few player exceptions). They look like an AHL team, playing at the NHL level for the first time. However, I cannot put that on the coach. We have enough veteran players to know better.
As far as veteran players, I would say that after last nights game, all bets are off regarding trades. This team lacks on ice leadership and that needs to change if this team has any HOPE for making the playoffs this year or next year for that matter.
Morrow needs to be stripped of the “C” or traded. ( I would prefer traded). I also think the “A” should be stripped as well.
The only players that should not be on the trade block are: Benn, Ryder, Goligoski, Dailey, Erickson, Loethonen, Vincor, Larson, Nystrom, Fiddler and Ott. The rest are trade bait. Let the above players earn the “C” and "A"s.
Time is up to make a change, we cannot afford another night like this. If the new owner wants to improve the fan base, a decision needs to be made NOW!!! No More EXCUSES. I have heard the excuse that “we can play better than this” since the season begins, and frankly I don’t think so. You have played this way all season, so Its WHO YOU ARE.
Squirrelshot
You can see he's elite and offer no proof all you want.
It still doesn’t make him elite.
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what proof do you have that he isn't?
I know u will come back with some stats to show why, but going on what I’ve seen over this and last season I believe he is up there with the best in the league. Ok, maybe not elite but he is a dam good goaltender and certainly there arent many I would swap him for.
I’ll ask again, where would we be without him? I vote about 3 points better that the Blue Jackets!!
by Matt Wright on Feb 8, 2012 11:31 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
x
Ok, maybe not elite but he is a dam good goaltender and certainly there arent many I would swap him for.
Are you really splitting the difference between saying he isn’t elite and my saying that he’s slightly above average?
You just said exactly what I’ve said several times in your own words, and you’re arguing against it.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
you see
I don’t know what else he can do to convince you he is up with the best, beside saving a hundred shots a game! He was outstanding last night, and I’m not talking about that one save only!
by Matt Wright on Feb 8, 2012 12:00 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Well, you're wrong.
There are maybe 2-3 elite goalies. Everyone else is a different shade of gray until you get to the bad goalies.
The difference between a .919 save percentage and .910 is 9 goals for 1000 shots. Assuming you see 2000 shots in a season that’s 18 goals in 82 games, or .2 goals a game which is roughly the equivalent of taking a penalty. It isn’t insignificant, but it isn’t giant.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Basically
with all you’ve said, you’re OPINION is that Kari is slightly above average. You say there’s elite and different shades of grey. Nothing statistically says he’s only slightly above average because there’s that big range stat-wise. The stats then by what you’re saying support that he’s average at least. So if you say slightly above average, and someone else says above average or very good, what they say is as valid as your slightly above average claim as long as no one claims he’s elite.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I said save percentage regresses to the mean over time.
That isn’t an opinion, it’s a documented fact. Right now he’s at .919 when the average is .910. .919 > .910 which means it’s above average. It isn’t elite though, and it isn’t terrible impressive either. Of the 18 goalies with 20 or more starts he’s 18th in save percentage.
These aren’t opinions. These are cold hard facts.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Of all goalies with 20 or more starts*
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I'm not talking about that being opinion
I’m saying your statement of him being SLIGHTLY above average is opinion. Because it’s just as valid based on what you say in your stats to say he’s GOOD or just plain ABOVE average. You can’t say someone is wrong for saying that, it’s an opinion. It’s not a fact that he’s slightly above average.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
And
a couple days ago when I looked he was right about top 10. When there are so many guys so close in save % there can be big ranking swings from one game to the next.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
x
I know u will come back with some stats to show why, but going on what I’ve seen over this and last season I believe he is up there with the best in the league.
This is what I disagreed with. It’s wrong. It’s perception vs reality.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
Well,
I’m not the one that said that. In reply to me you said it’s face about the mean over time of .910, and where he’s ranked today in save %. I didn’t say those weren’t facts.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
No, you want to nitpick at semantics.
He said Lehtonen was near elite, and I disagreed based on the vast statistical evidence that says goalies are volatile outside of the truly elite guys.
I couldn’t care less about the difference between good and slightly above average. It’s a meaningless distinction. You aren’t arguing any point you’re just picking at word choice.
The simple point is that I think he’s in the 10-15 range of starting goalies. There are 30 starting goalies in the NHL. The average of 30 is 15. 10-15 is slightly above average. if you think he’s in the 5-10 range….great. I don’t and the facts don’t support your claim. Either way, it’s irrelevant to the fact that he isn’t Rinne/Thomas.
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I see this being
a long argument. I’m of the opinion that without Kari, we would be tanking so bad we would look like the Blue Jackets. Rightly or wrongly that’s what I think.
I think he is at the worst a top 8 goaltender in this league. The stats show that he is average, or slightly above, I get that.
One thing that has court my eye, is that Halak couldn’t save a sausage early this season. Hitch goes in there , and he’s at .922 save percentage with 5 shutouts. I don’t consider Halak to be any better that Kari, but his stats are better mostly due to his team playing hard every night to a system that works. Sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story!
by Matt Wright on Feb 8, 2012 3:21 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think the point being made is that it wouldn't matter if Eddie Belfour or Patrick Roy were back there, their numbers would not be in the "elite" status range.
If we swapped out Kari for say…Jimmy Howard, Kari’s numbers would be much better than those of Howard if he were playing in Dallas behind this group.
A goaltender can only do so much when the guys in front of him don’t play very good defense and turn the puck over at the blueline at least 3 times a game.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 8, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not gonna say he's elite
but in my reply above I mentioned that his save & being 18th-19th doesn’t mean he’s only slightly above average either. One game where plays well yet has bad stats and he drops from .922-.932 to .919. Have to take into account the quality of shots he’s facing compared to other goalies on other teams which is hard to do.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I'm confused
Why does everyone consider Ott a core player? Fan favorite, yes. Core player, no. Definitely a luxury. I’d listen to offers, but you’d have to overpay me for him. He might be a luxury but he’s a luxury worth having.
I honestly believe that the true core of this team as currently constructed is: Benn, Eriksson, Lehtonen, Goligoski, Larson, maybe Vincour, and prospects. You probably don’t want to trade Fiddler, Ryder, Nystrom (decent pieces plus you just signed two of them in the summer).
Until we can get people that can actually win faceoffs regularly and guys that actually at least appear to give a crap, I'd say Ott is a core player.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 8, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
I used to be on that side of the argument
But if Ott if your emotional spark plug and the team keeps coming out flat what does that say about him? He hasn’t really agitated or scored goals this year. He’s a non-top-six forward getting paid almost $3 million a year. I think he’s incredibly effective as a third line checker/agitator who can drive you nuts and chip in goals. I just don’t know that I define that as a core player.
I'm still there, but ya, his production is lower than it has been.
Without him, who do you have that has ANY fire on this team?
Outside of Ribeiro who gets a little pissed off now and again, there isn’t anyone that plays the spark plug role on this team any better than Ott can.
They’ve probably all fallen into that neverending “well if you’re not going to give a crap, neither am I” boat.
by Travis Drybread on Feb 8, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'd listen to offers
from literally every player in the organization besides Benn, Eriksson, and Lehtonen. I’d actively shop Morrow, Ribeiro(only if a potential replacement comes back in one of the deals), Robidas, and all the impending UFA’s.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 12:16 PM CST reply actions
Benn, Eriksson, Lehtonen, Goligoski
That, to me, is the core of the team that needs to remain. Anyone else, I’d listen to offers on.
Goligoski I put on the list
only because they just extended him, that’s a sign they want to keep him. He’s not untouchable talent-wise.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Feb 8, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
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