The NHLPA has confirmed that it will indeed make a proposal of their own, yet they're not calling it a "counter-proposal". They're calling it a response.

Pessimism abounds across the internet as word has come down that 18 players and 4 owners will attend the negotiating session along with the usual "big four" of Bettman, Daly, Fehr and his other brother Fehr.

If the NHLPA presents an offer that uses the league's as a framework then the feeling is that there can be negotiations over the next week possibly leading to a resolution. If the players once again present something that is fundamentally and conceptually different than what the league has offered... It could be a very long time before the two sides meet again to discuss anything truly substantive.

Problems from the PA's side are expected to revolve around the NHL's plan to pay players a sort of deferred compensation after lowering their salaries in the next few years. The money will come out of the players share of HRR - As the players put it: "Players paying players."

And so we continue to kill time.

I'm no labor expert but my experiences suggest there's direct correlation between how many people in room and how much is NOT accomplished.

— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) October 18, 2012

Ding ding ding. RT @vrantanen: @reporterchris heavy support means hard line counter offer, not backing off, eh.

— Chris Johnston (@reporterchris) October 18, 2012

The verb the #NHLPA is using before today's meeting w/ 18 players in attendance is not a good sign. They're going to "respond" to #NHL offer

— Michael Russo (@Russostrib) October 18, 2012

Bad feeling about this today.18 players & 4 owners when it sholdl be Fehr brothers meeting Bettman & Daly. Alot of extra baggage in the room

— Bruce LeVine (@BruceLeVine22) October 18, 2012

If the meeting is over in 25 minutes. Expect bad things. If it takes over an hour then hope will endure - At least until Don Fehr opens his mouth. Then we'll see.

We continue to kill time... the meeting starts at noon CST.