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Why The Dallas Stars Will Be Just Fine Without Brad Richards

[Editor's Note: Josh does a great job helping us move on from tragedy with one heck of a FanPost. This is a great breakdown of why Stars fans should be feeling confident, even without Richards on the team.]

The most obvious difference between the 2010 and 2011 Dallas Stars is going to be the hole opened up by the departure of Brad Richards. The prevailing assumption is that without Richards this incarnation of the Stars is destined for hard times. Richards was clearly viewed as the alpha male by the Stars, and when he was hurt you could tell the team was completely out of sorts. The team was identified by Brad Richards, and his presence as a Star for three seasons has spoiled some fans. His presence greatly magnified the flaws of Mike Ribeiro, and marginalized Steve Ott to an extent. The biggest question heading into training camp is how will the Stars top six forwards look without Brad Richards, and that question hinges on the duo of Ribeiro and Ott up the middle.

To really consider this issue we first need to establish the value of Mike Ribeiro.

For a player who has been in one spot as long as Mike Ribeiro has been he is significantly underappreciated by his home fanbase, and some of that is his own doing. Ribeiro is one of those flashy players that spends significantly more time in the offensive end of the rink than the defensive end. He has had some off-ice issues (the bar fight and the missed team meeting come to mind) which have combined with his on-ice play to create a disconnect between his production on ice and what his perceived value should be. So, what is he?    

Star-divide

Simply, Mike Ribeiro is a legitimate first line center. The Stars happened to have two of those for the past three years, and we, as fans, were incredibly lucky in that regard. The best way to see how valuable Ribeiro has been to the Stars is to compare what he gave the Stars last year to what other teams got from their top two centers. Ideally we need to compare apples to apples. The best way to gain an appreciation for Ribeiro is to compare him to the top two centers from all teams in the NHL in terms of GVT60. Remember GVT (goals versus threshold) is a comparison of what extra value the player in question contributed versus what a replacement level player would contribute. Thus, GVT60 would be how much they contributed per 60 minutes of ice time (IE one full game). Where does Ribeiro rank among the 60 top two line centers (based on total time on ice per team) from last season?

18th. He’s a borderline All Star on a year to year basis.

The question then becomes a question of whether or not Steve Ott can contribute enough as the Stars second line center to make the Ribeiro/Ott 1-2 punch a viable option. First we need to establish a benchmark level of production that we can expect from Ott for 2011-12. His average production the past three seasons has yielded 18 goals, 20 assists, and a 5.77 GVT. If you combine the average Ott season with Ribeiro-level production from last season (ignoring numerous incalculable preseason variables such as significantly different ice time, injuries, etc.) you come to a composite production from the Stars top two centers for 2011-2012 as follows:

Ribeiro/Ott:

155 games 37 goals 72 assists 109 points 20.27 GVT and .810 GVT/60

Composite stats of the other top two center duos from 2010/11:

146 games 40 goals 67 assists 107 points 19.1 GVT and .833 GVT/60  

Basically, it isn’t all doom and gloom. A very modest projection has the Stars top centers as middle of the pack for 2011, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. Steve Ott isn’t the player Brad Richards is. The forward corps is taking a definite step back, but I don’t think the drop off is as exaggerated as it appears at first glance. There are several factors to consider that aren’t easily quantifiable.

How much of an impact will the infusion of Steve Ott’s defense have on the forward group?  After the great defensive purge since 2008 (Halpern, Lehtinen, Hagman, Miettinen, Barnes, etc. being shown the door), the top six group has lacked a defensive presence. It appears Ott is going to be viewed as a less expensive Brooks Laich-type, and very few people would argue against the value Laich has to the Capitals. His faceoff ability will add some value to the group also, but one area he will have to watch is the penalty minutes. The average top two center duo in the NHL had 78 total penalty minutes last season. Otter had 183 alone, and a total that high in a top six capacity will certainly hinder his value.

The most significant potential impact will be on Loui Eriksson and Jamie Benn. A simple thought experiment yields the completely reasonable idea that both players will suffer without Richards. I disagree with that thought, and I would like to argue that they will have every opportunity to be bigger contributors with Richards out of the fold. Last season the Eriksson, Richards, Benn line had little physical presence. If anyone needed to be a board presence they were taken away from their natural skill set. Injecting Ott into the mix allows the two talented wingers to be in offensive position as much as possible. And most importantly, Brad Richards took the 15th most shots in the NHL last season. Every player above him played less-to-significantly less games than he did. For a playmaking center he took a ton of shots, and he did so with a relatively low shooting percentage. If you even those shots out some between Eriksson and Benn I think you can reasonably project more production out of them on top of natural improvement.

Ultimately you would rather have Brad Richards than not, but the Stars will be fine at center. They have a duo who will give them at least league average production, and they have a group of wingers who are as good as any in the league. It will be interesting to see how Ott reacts to the added responsibility, but he has every bit of talent and past production history to suggest that he will be just fine as the Stars second line center for 2012. When you combine him with the year to year top-level production of Mike Ribeiro you get a solid center situation for 2011/12, and one less question mark heading into training camp.

[GVT numbers taken from the hockeyprospectus all time GVT file hosted on Google Docs] 

This is a user-created FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Defending Big D. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable hockey and Dallas Stars fans.

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Genius

This post is just fantastic . Shows someone who really knows their stuff. Good show! Also im biased because I love otter and believe this will be a very good year for him. Nice post.

by Ottersaurus on Sep 7, 2011 9:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Enough with the Richards postings

Hes gone now. Yes he is my favorite player and yes i don’t mind hearing about him, but this is Dallas stars hockey. I’m sure he’ll be missed when he has a career year and ott will to I’m hoping but Richy will still have 30-50 more points.. Excited for loui and Benn to get some chem going though

by 91_Stars_21 on Sep 7, 2011 10:01 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Yea I know

It was a great post, but it just kind of seemed that he made Richy seem unimportant last year. I just want the season to start already

by 91_Stars_21 on Sep 7, 2011 10:17 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Richards was important last year for sure

In fact I pointed that out by saying the team was in disarray without him.

But, I don’t think his loss is crippling since he took so much of the valuable ice time. Other guys can step up on this team, and they still have above average center play.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 7, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Screw the Critics

I welcome their opinion as “We won’t make the playoffs!” Simple fact is we don’t know. But, what we do know is this: when the critics say good things about us only bad things happen. And when they doubt us we always prove them wrong. SO BRING ON THE INSULTS! Yes, Brad Richards is gone….WHOOPTY DOO! He can take his high dollar ass to new york and play tag with that douchebag avery for all I care. We WILL be fine without him.

by DStarsOneSixFan on Sep 7, 2011 10:18 PM CDT reply actions  

This is a very well written article. The only problem is that Benn is going to be the second line center, not Ott. Gulutzan confirmed that how the team is going into training camp with this quote per Andrews DSP:

"What we have left is Ribby and Morrow that worked together and you try to find a piece there to fit in," said Gulutzan. "Jamie Benn is going to play center and we’ve got to see what works for Benny. Tommy Wandell we feel can have a big year, and we want to give him opportunity."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/stars/post/_/id/12121/dallas-stars-outlook-forwards-2

He didn’t speciify “2nd line center,” but that seems like the most likely spot for him.

by AC on Sep 7, 2011 10:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Should read “that is how” in third sentence. I suck.

by AC on Sep 7, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Benn would do just fine as the 2nd line center as well

There was a story yesterday, I believe with Nieuwendyk quotes, saying that Ott is going into camp looking at top six minutes, and considering his faceoff prowess it only makes sense that it’s at center.

Whether you have Ott or Benn at center though the ultimate point still remains. They’ll be fine up front.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 7, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Although, Ott was pretty beastly on the wing with Morrow/Ribeiro a couple years back

It isn’t crazy to think that they want Ott taking 1st line faceoffs then shifting to the wing, but I still think Ryder is here to play with Ribeiro.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 7, 2011 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think your point is made either way. Maybe even moreso with Benn as the second line center. I see it as Ott-Benn-Eriksson on the second line, with Ott taking faceoffs and then shifting to the wing.

Part of me is holding onto the hope that Benn pulled a Crosby and made himself a faceoff machine this summer. But I think that’s just a dream.

by AC on Sep 7, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

He might have made himself a face off beast, but either way having Ott away from the face off dot is a waste.

I hope he is given the opportunity to take those key top 6 face offs.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 7, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great post.

I think I feel better about the team already. Personally I want to see Ott at center and Benn on the wing. I bet if Benn played an entire season at LW his stats would be ridiculous.

by T-rom on Sep 8, 2011 12:42 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Very good post.

And it’s good to read something like this, when yesterday was so dark.

Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.

by Henri Muroke on Sep 8, 2011 1:22 AM CDT reply actions  

One great stonking post you've got there Josh.

I’ve found it interesting this post season to look at the numbers all over the NHL and it always seems that Ribeiro was always in the top 50 or so players in the league, I think he’s put those points up quieter than Eriksson!

As for Ott, I hope it works out. In fairness, he’ll have our two best players so I think he’ll be okay, seems quite a dynamic two top lines we have.

Tsudbury for King!!! (if you want a pretty scarf)
James Neal - 45 points. Alex Goligoski - 46 points. Nieuwendyk lost?

by Great British Stars Fan on Sep 8, 2011 4:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Great post!

Let us not forget Loui, I mean he is the next Jere right? Did Ott play much with Loui last year or at all?

by Morrow10 on Sep 8, 2011 6:08 AM CDT reply actions  

True that, but I've said it before...

I seriously think that when all is said and done Loui will add more offense to that defensively responsible skill set than Jere did.

Not to take anything away form Jere, though, because he set the template as the “king of little things” after all, but add a few more big goals to that mix…

"Our GM,
who art in the front office,
on Conn Smythe be thy name…"

by Angelou Del Angel on Sep 8, 2011 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Loui isn't the defensive player Jere was

Jere was a generational defensive talent

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 8, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very good post

The thing about Benn being at centre instead of Ott is (as stated above) the faceoffs, Otter could be really important for us at on the dot this season and you have to hope that he will be taking them for the good of our short term success, but then again if Joe is planning on playing Benn at centre for the rest of his career should he be taking faceoffs so that he becomes ‘the’ man to have on the dot as our first line centre in years to come?

by ukstar on Sep 8, 2011 6:48 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think it's too farfetched to suggest that perhap Joe will wait for a no.1 centre and then put Benn and Loui with them.

Tsudbury for King!!! (if you want a pretty scarf)
James Neal - 45 points. Alex Goligoski - 46 points. Nieuwendyk lost?

by Great British Stars Fan on Sep 8, 2011 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Number one centers don't grow on trees though.

It will be hard to find someone better than Ribeiro to put with Benn and Eriksson. I think you just need to find someone who has some good chemistry with Benn and Eriksson. I don’t see why it can’t be Ott.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 8, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

As far as who gets center, I hope Gully will just see how Ott and Benn work together, and decide from there.

Personally, I would much rather see Ott as a #2 center, with Benn on the wing. I think both players would be much more comfortable with that set up. But ya never know.

And without looking at the stats, I think it’s safe to say that Ott has had a decrease in penalty minutes over the last couple seasons. (At least the stupid penalty minutes, that’s for sure.) I think he’s started to realize he’s more valuable on the ice rather than in the penalty box. Throw in the fact that Gully detests fighting, and I think he may encourage Ott to not toe the line as often as he did before. He absolutely still needs to from time to time, because, hey, it’s Ott. Just not as much as he has been.

"I want to have Jamie Benn's babies. And you can quote me on that." - Brandon Worley

by Tsudbury on Sep 8, 2011 6:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Just to make a point about Richards

I am very happy that we’re not going to have a forward stuck on the point for the entire two minutes of every single stinking penalty. I didn’t mind it when it was Mike, but Tipp didn’t stick Mike there and leave him there regardless of how he was performing. Richards I think was detrimental to the PP due to being out there with both units, and the only one to blame for that is Crow.
Give me two different 5 man PPs. Thank you.

by Waywardstars on Sep 8, 2011 10:50 AM CDT reply actions  

it's a good article but i disagree

with throwing the word “fine” around so much. fine compared to what? not making the playoffs, to not being in the cellar of the Western Conference. to being around league average in a competitive division and stacked conference?

Ott…I’m just not sure he is a legitimate second line Center on a successful playoff team. Yes, he “could” be in theory but does he have the skill? He has some sneaky third line skill that’s suited him well to being something other than a pest and he can take face-offs. But is he a gamer, on a playoff team? His physical presence will be needed, but he’s also smallish. He could get away with his style on the 3rd line. There’s a world of difference on the second line. Can he be counted to set up Loui and Benn and still be able to get his own? 25 goals? Something we haven’t seen from him yet. It’s just a lot to ask.

Now he can certainly be “fine” if…he scores more goals and has more assists, Benn’s number increase, Loui’s numbers increase and the 3rd line holds its own and the team is better overall (all of which is certainly feasible but a lot of if’s).

Ribeiro…is a step below being a top-flight first-line center (so does that mean above-average, idk?). He has all the talent in the world but he needs an uptick in goals, overall points, consistency and timing to be mentioned with some of the better ones. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Ribs and we are very fortunate to have him. But we simply need him to be better.

this team will be more motivated and potentially better up and down knowing that Richards isn’t going to be their “star” player for them. i felt like there was too much watching and yielding to him the last couple of seasons. the large amounts of shots you mentioned are an example.

There are just a lot of “if’s”. I feel we’re having something of a Robidas-syndrome. He’s the heart and soul of our D (perhaps our team) and a very, very good, underrated player. But is he top-flight, elite? No. Where would he be on other playoff teams? Likely second line. Morrow? Second line. Ribs? Second line. Ryder? Second line, third line on a SC winner. Ott? Third line playmaker/pest.

We love our team but also oversell their abilities in regards to the rest of the league. Ott and Ribs might actually be “fine” in the end, as you pointed out it’s not far-fetched by any means. But we also need a LOT of other things to fall in place for the rest of the team to pull their weight, Defense, Kari, first line scoring, 3rd line, etc.

by spatulacity on Sep 8, 2011 10:51 AM CDT reply actions  

I disagree with your disagreement.

Realistically do I expect us to compete for more than just a playoff spot? No.
But realistically, this was a team that had the ability to beat the best teams last year. The reason we failed last season I rest solely on Crow.
We lost Richards, we lost Skratchy ( aww man), we changed our 4th liners, and Gully won’t be tempted to insert Woywitka into the Top 6. But this isn’t the Post WCF 2008 Purge that had us lose our entire defensive presence.
I do believe we’ll do fine without Richards. We played fine without him last season. He’s a top flight talent and with a smart coach like Gully having Richards, we’d be contenders.
We have decent defense going into this season. Our Top 6 is competitive even without Richards. Our goaltender can steal us games if the defense plays team defense. Our role players are different, but I have high hopes.
We are not heavyweights, we’re not favorites, we’re not a dominant team. But we’ve got the pieces necessary to sneak into the 7th or 8th spot.

by Waywardstars on Sep 8, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Problem
Now he can certainly be "fine" if…he scores more goals and has more assists, Benn’s number increase, Loui’s numbers increase and the 3rd line holds its own and the team is better overall (all of which is certainly feasible but a lot of if’s

None of this has anything to do with the ability of Steve Ott to play second line minutes though.

And as for his production, this was another point of what I wrote. Ott has averaged about 19 goals and 20 or so assists a year. What more are you wanting from a second line center? Joe Nieuwendyk’s aren’t the norm. Plus, defensive ability is hard to quantify. The Stars have been putrid defensively for several years, and I honestly think his defensive contribution added to a line with dynamic offensive wingers will really be a positive.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 8, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also
We love our team but also oversell their abilities in regards to the rest of the league. Ott and Ribs might actually be "fine" in the end, as you pointed out it’s not far-fetched by any means. But we also need a LOT of other things to fall in place for the rest of the team to pull their weight, Defense, Kari, first line scoring, 3rd line, etc.

Right, and thats inverse of the point I was trying to make. The center play isn’t going to be the reason they miss the playoffs (if they do). It’s going to be the defense, goaltending, special teams, or some combination thereof.

"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

by Josh Lile on Sep 8, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly...

I think we struggled more with Burish out the lineup than we did with Richards out. Not to say Brad was unimportant because of course he was. I think the point of this post is to go against the detractors who immediately wrote us off once he left.

I still think our problem last year was more about lack of depth than anything else and I think you’d be hard pressed to say we didn’t address that this off-season, even with losing Richie. If even half of our new additions pan out we’ll be in good shape.

Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner

Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury

by EagleBelf on Sep 8, 2011 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

great post

this and your goligoski post are very good stuff

GET OFF NIEUWENDYK'S NUTS

by 8thegreat on Sep 8, 2011 5:58 PM CDT reply actions  

More Depth, No Locked in Salary = Good Move

I think, simply put, no Richards means no heinously outrageous, long term 7-figure salary to bog us down and fill up our cap space (have fun with that, BTW, Sather…) makes it a good move for the Stars. Look at the problems the Devils and, for that matter, the Rangers, have had by signing players to overpriced, heinously high contracts. All I know is, if I cost my team nearly $20 million in buyouts, waivers, and minor league drop downs, I wouldn’t have a job, so I don’t know why Sather has been able to keep his for so long having lost the Rangers a pile of $$$ dumping (expensive) has-beens like Redden and Drury.

We essentially signed five quality guys in the offseason (Ryder, Fiddler, Dvorak, Souray, and Pardy) for nearly the cost of what we would have had to pay Richards over two years, so I think the Stars have mor depth now. It could be a real bargain if Souray in particular has a comeback year, which he certainly had to be trying for…

As for Richards, I hope they bunk him with Avery. The Rangers can have our “sloppy seconds…”

Mike
(No longer a) Richards fan

by The Stars Strike Back on Sep 11, 2011 11:20 PM CDT reply actions  

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