Marty Turco Revisited: A Statistical Look Back
The 2007-08 Dallas Stars had just gone to the Western Conference Finals with new acquisition Brad Richards. We all know the next phase of the story. The two-headed monster brings in Sean Avery, most of the defensive core of the team crumbles, and the team misses the playoffs for three seasons running. Marty Turco's career coincidentally appeared to begin a downward spiral at the same time, and he took a lot of heat. How much of that was fair though?
Does Marty Turco deserve more credit for the Stars fall from grace, or was he a victim of circumstance? The conclusion I came to is that Turco had a confluence of bad situations come together. Marty played a ton of minutes, saw a ton of shots, and got old very quickly. Follow the jump to see exactly what happened.
What we first need to do to tackle this question is to determine what Marty Turco was before the franchise sunk into the abyss. Below you will find a simple table chronicling Turco's GVT by season for his Stars career.
| Marty Turco GVT by season | ||||||||
| 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 |
| 12.3 | 10.7 | 34.6 | 13.9 | 9.5 | 19.6 | 8.6 | -7.3 | 9.0 |
Two seasons really jump out at you when first glancing: one good, one bad. The 2002-03 Marty Turco was the best goalie in the NHL. The 2003 season was Marty's first season as the Stars #1 goaltender, and he didn't disappoint. Marty had a 1.72 GAA to go with a .932 SV% in 55 games. Turco's 2003 was the 57th best goaltending season since 1967 (as far back as the stats go) in terms of GVT, and the best in Stars franchise history. That season set unreasonably high expectations for Turco, but despite that he was still really good in 2004.
The 2008-09 season was a different animal entirely. Marty was coming off of a solid, but unspectacular regular season. The Stars went on their deepest playoff run in 8 years, and Marty was in net for all of it. Then in 2009, Marty played the second highest minute total of his career. Only 31 goalies have ever topped 4300 minutes in a season. Marty's 4327 minutes is the 24th highest goalie minute total in NHL history. He topped that total once in his career earlier, at age 28. Marty played the 2009 season at 33.
Remember those 31 instances where a goalie was on the ice for 4300 minutes? Nine of those belong to Martin Brodeur. Four of those belong to Mikka Kipprusoff. Three of those belong to Arturs Irbe. Two each belong to Grant Fuhr and Marty Turco. Twelve goalies in NHL history have seen that many minutes. Only four goalies have seen that many minutes at age 33 or older, and only one of those four continued to play at a high level (Brodeur...and even he plays behind what is considered a very tight defensive system).
Five years is a long time in professional sports, and the time frame between 28-33 is generally considered the prime of an athletic career. It appears that the minutes took a significant toll on Turco over the course of the year. However, the minutes Turco played in 2009 don't tell the entire story. There aren't enough examples to draw a definitive conclusion stating that the minutes Turco played took THAT much of a toll on him. The Stars defense really was bad, and how quickly they fell can be seen in the amount of shots thrown at Turco.
Two intuitive ideas should govern how many goals a goalie will give up in a given season. The quality of shots a goalie faces and the amount of shots a goalies faces should tell us what his GAA should be. Unfortunately, there is no way to currently detect a teams ability to alter shot quality, so we will have to lean primarily on shots against.
What happened after the Western Conference Finals appearance? Well, the Stars defense allowed rubber to be thrown at Turco at a rapid pace. Marty went from, on average, seeing about 24 shots per game in his career leading up to 2009, to seeing 28 shots per game in 2009. He subsequently saw about 31 shots per game in 2010. The chart below illustrates the rising shot totals.
| Marty Turco Shots Against | |||||
| Year | GP | Time on Ice | GAA | Shots | SA/60 |
| 2001 | 26 | 1266 | 1.90 | 532 | 25.21 |
| 2002 | 31 | 1519 | 2.09 | 670 | 26.46 |
| 2003 | 55 | 3203 | 1.72 | 1359 | 25.47 |
| 2004 | 73 | 4359 | 1.98 | 1648 | 22.68 |
| 2006 | 68 | 3910 | 2.55 | 1624 | 24.92 |
| 2007 | 67 | 3764 | 2.23 | 1564 | 24.93 |
| 2008 | 62 | 3629 | 2.31 | 1543 | 25.51 |
| 2009 | 74 | 4327 | 2.81 | 1993 | 27.64 |
| 2010 | 53 | 3088 | 2.72 | 1605 | 31.19 |
*Note: Post lockout GAA #'s are higher due to more than just Turco. The new rules inflated goal scoring. SA/60 is the shots against per 60 minutes.
Basically, as Turco's shots against and minutes went up with his age, so did his goals against average. It looks like Marty was simply beaten down from all the pucks thrown at him. Another way to put the shots he saw in context is to apply the 2009 rate of shots he saw per minute to the amount of ice time he accumulated in 2008.
How many extra shots would Turco have seen in the Western Conference Finals season if the next season's rate of shots against were applied? 130 more in 12 less games.
Like I said, we all know what happened in 2009, but I don't think we fully appreciate just how quickly things went south, and how much of a burden fell on an aging Marty Turco. Outside of a couple years he was never a top top top tier goaltender so when the talent in front of him evaporated his collapse seemed much more pronounced than it really was. We need to remember Marty for what he was: a very good goalie who ended his tenure in Dallas under some less than fortunate circumstances.
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word is
The stars signed modano to retire as a star!
go go goligoski
by DALLASSTARS7 on Sep 22, 2011 11:25 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Only a strong character like that
of Turco’s could ease the loss of the Eagle. Marty made me feel like everything was going to be allright after Eddie was shipped off.
I’ll always remember Marty in the home blacks with the black pads. Not very practical, but such an intimidating presence in net.
"Goaltenders are 3 sandwiches shy of a picnic. From the moment primitive man lurched erect, he survived on the principle that when something hard and potentially lethal comes toward you at great velocity, get the hell out of it's path." - Jim Taylor
Turco was declining.
But he also became a bit of a scapegoat for a team that lost their identity across the ice.
Thank you, Josh
I don’t have to tell anyone here that Marty is one of my all-time favorite players. I always felt that Marty got a bad rap to a certain extent – yes, he did get older and his reflexes have slowed. But he was never as bad as some of the haters asserted (even in Chicago last season where he again ran into problems with the defense in front of him again, and once the team started playing better, outside of the start in Dallas and a couple of relief appearances, he wasn’t given a chance in net again). It’s nice to see that feeling is backed up by some cold, hard statistics.
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I'm not sure what to think about his season with the Hawks
Like you said, he wasn’t given much of a chance after the bad start, but based on his GAA/SV% over the two years prior it wouldn’t be hard to make the argument that he didn’t deserve one.
I left the Hawks numbers off since they don’t have much to do with his time in Dallas, but he did face 29/30 shots per 60 minutes with the Hawks too. So he probably wasn’t as bad as he looked last year. He’s definitely worthy of being SOMEONEs back up this year if he wants to accept that role.
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I would take Marty in a heartbeat if I were a GM over some of the backups who did get jobs
After last season, I would hope that he would know that his best shot to continue in the NHL is to accept a backup’s job. Then if he can show he still has what it takes to take over as a starter, good for him. If not, work for a year or two as a backup and call it career.
TracyJean1972: YouTube channel
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I tend to think he hasn't accepted the idea that he's a backup at this point.
For the very logic you pointed out.
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Marty is great.
I have many good memories because of him.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
I am a Marty fan . . .
but I never believed the Stars would win a Cup with Marty in net.
Before I get called a hater, let me say, I love the guy . . . he has talent, he has class, he is a leader on and off the ice, he has great community involvement and he has great fan repore . . . and I believe he was somewhat stymied by the “Turco Rule” . . . you know, that ‘no touch’ trapezoid behind the goal line that was put into place to bridle his puck handling prowess.
And, without statistics at hand, he has to be one of the best, if not THE best, ever shootout goalies. The shooters always got the credit for the wins but we all know that Marty WON a big part of those himself and got no credit for it.
But, too often, he was lucky rather than talented on those circus stops. Even he used to comment on how lucky he was! But no luck was there when it came to soft goal opportunities. I used to dread the final two minutes of any period because you just knew he was going to give one up . . . and he did . . . way too often. He was also horrid about giving up follow-up goals, a few seconds after the first goal.
But I also agree he was hurt by the lack of defense in front of him.
I certainly don’t regret his time with the Stars and, under the right circumstances, I think he might possibly have won us a cup (see Stars/Canucks playoff series . . . 3 shutouts and still loses!).
Bottom line, he was a well above average/bordering on great goaltender and a wonderful person. I wish him all the best and would love to see him get picked up by an NHL team and do a great job for them. But, I think his NHL career is probably over.
Marty has always been a class act
When we first drafted him, I got the inside scoop on what kind of person he was from my aunt. Her son, my cousin, was a young teen goalie with division 1 college aspirations (eventually had the chance to play divsion 3, not D1). He attended a summer hockey school conducted at the University of Michigan, and Marty Turco, still a student in college there, worked with all of the goalies in camp. My cousin came back idolizing Marty and my aunt just raved about what a nice guy he was. He joined the two of them for meals and really cared about the kids in the camp. No act, he is just a genuinely nice guy.
Funny, but my aunt said he would never become a good NHL goalie, because his style was too undisciplined and relied too much on athleticism. There was truth to her reasoning, but her sure proved her wrong.
I can confirm how nice of a guy he is
My one interaction with him that I remember (his first Skate With the Stars) was great. I was 15 or so, and he was as approachable as anyone on the team. He even was willing to sign my Stars hat with Marty Turco (M like the Michigan M) #35 Go Blue!
Good times.
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
He was a class guy and as fan friendly as I have met...but
Marty thrived when younger due to his athletic ability to recover when a save or move put him out of position. As he got older he could not rely on that ability and the fact that his mechanics were not that sound really started to show.
Now as for him being the scapegoat I think he earned a lot of that. Even casual fans can understand when a goalie is getting pelted, but you have to make the easy ones. Turco’s problem was that he would let in too many easy ones, and it seemed like it was always at the wrong time. To make it seem worse he could still make some incredible show stopping saves like the skate blade on Toewes, but then would follow that up with some third liner sneaking one through the five hole.
Flashy is great but it does not win games. You have to make the easy ones look easy and then get lucky every once in a while.
I think the athleticism point is a direct consequence of how many minutes he played in 2009.
You’re absolutely right…his athleticism didn’t carry him. Check out how he did month by month though.
After October he was perfectly fine. He might have brought criticism upon himself by letting in some bad goals, but those bad goals shouldn’t overshadow the full body of work. It was a decline for sure, but he wasn’t nearly the worst goalie in the league after October.
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011

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