2011 NHL Free Agency: Is Philip Larsen A Potential Trade Piece?
The past few days and even weeks, as July 1 loomed in the future, much of our focus has been on free agency and just whom -- and for how much -- the Dallas Stars would have to overpay to not only boost the team above the cap floor but also provide some much needed boosting on the ice. It's been frustrating, facing the reality that a limited amount of decent options in the market combined with many teams with need will create a very unfavorable market.
Joe Nieuwendyk has acknowledged this problem and has stated several times the past few weeks that he is not adverse to the idea of acquiring much-needed talent through a trade. This forgoes some of the issues surrounding the most assuredly overpayment of any potential free agent acquisition, and allows the Stars to take on salary while fulfilling their need on defense or offense while also adding to the cap total.
It's easy to say. "Just make a few trades and then sign a free agent."
The question becomes, however, just who on the Stars is available to be traded? The Stars have a few assets that are starting to build value for the future, and a combination of prospects and future draft picks could be used to steal away a good player from another team. When I start to look at the list of players that could possibly be used in such a trade, for some reason Philip Larsen keeps catching my eye again and again...
Joe Nieuwendyk has shown before that he won't hesitate to trade a top defensive prospect on the verge of making it to the NHL. In 2010, he traded away the top prospect in the entire organization to Atlanta in exchange for Kari Lehtonen -- who is now the stalwart force in net this team desperately needed. At first it was a bit of a shock to see Ivan Vishnevskiy leaving, since it was expected he could potentially be a pseudo-replacement for Sergei Zubov. What was even more alarming about the trade, at the time, was that Vishnevskiy was the only true defensive prospect the Stars had at the time -- at least someone being even close to ready to move up.
Of course, Vishnevskiy never made it to the NHL. That's another story altogether.
In this case, the circumstances are slightly different. The Stars, in just a few short years, have gone from having one of the worst defensive prospect pools in the NHL to enjoying a very healthy group of defensemen in the system. In fact, there are so many very promising defensemen (Brenden Dillon, Patrik Nemeth, John Klingberg, Troy Vance, Jamieson Oleksiak, Hubert Labrie) that it's not inconceivable to imagine a scenario where Larsen becomes expendable.
With the Stars trading for Alex Goligoski in February, the Stars also fulfilled a dire need at the NHL level that was supposedly soon to be filled by Larsen. Goligoski won't ever be the most physical defensemen, but he's decent enough in his own and proved with the Stars to be capable of being downright magical on offense. With Goligoski on the team and Karlis Skrastins departing to the KHL, there's now a need for a bigger, shutdown defensemen rather than one that can move the puck.
In fact, when I look at the defensemen currently on the roster, I have a hard time figuring out if Larsen even fits when the Stars do add a defensemen or two. He won't get more minutes than Nicklas Grossman, Stephane Robidas, Trevor Daley, Goligoski and certainly not the new addition. That would leave Larsen fighting for minutes with Mark Fistric as a healthy scratch, which isn't exactly the scenario you'd like for an up and coming top prospect. We'd all love for Larsen to be with the Stars for most of the season, but there's also a good chance he stays in Austin out of camp.
If Larsen had been tearing up the AHL this past season my tone might be a bit different. As much hope as I have for him, however, it's seemed that he has struggled with the physical nature of the NHL game and while he's shown good things during brief stops with Dallas -- the man loves to shoot the puck, at least -- there have also been some disappointments. That's not to say we should expect greatness right away, but you'd like to see positive progress.
There are a few other factors to consider as well.
Next summer, Nicklas Grossman, Mark Fistric, Philip Larsen and Alex Goligoski will all be restricted free agents. The Stars will have Nemeth, and Klingberg one year closer to the NHL, along with Oleksiak. There's going to be a bottle neck forming at the defensive position for the Stars and while it's a great problem to have the team is going to have some very difficult decisions to make.
Now, to be fair, any one of these defensive prospects could be fair game in a trade as well. Larsen, however, is the closest to the NHL of all of them and if a team is going to trade away a defenseman -- or even a forward -- they're going to want a player in return that can help fill that void just a bit.
Larsen is due just $685,000 this season ($850,000 at the NHL level) so his presence on the roster won't make much of a difference on the salary cap figures. For a team wanting to unload some salary and pick up a decent prospect or two, Larsen could potentially become the bait that is set before other teams.
As with James Neal, it's would be very tough to see a young player set sail for other shores if he is traded. As always though, the team has needs and right now -- inexplicably -- the Stars are sitting with the defensive prospect pool as a position of strength; Larsen, as part of that pool, becomes expendable in order to serve the greater good of the team.
Stars fans: Would trading Philip Larsen be something you could fathom?
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I like the idea
as you said there just isnt anywhere for him to fit. I didnt think it right away but when we picked up go go, and now with these new picks from this year larsen seems to be expendable. Ive been thinking for weeks now who could we possibly trade for something worth anything in return. I think you just found that man.
go go goligoski
no thanks
The only way I trade Larsen is in a package for a guy whos still young (mid 20s) and is as established top 6 forward or top 4 dman. Considering it was his first year in NA he had a very good year and I think his trade value is only going to get better as he improves and adds weight. I don’t think its a bad thing at all if he takes another year in the AHL.
This is a guy who can skate, handle the puck, and think the game incredibly well. If he is able to remain healthy he’s got the potential to be very similar to Goligoski and could perhaps run the 2nd powerplay unit. I think it would be very shortsighted to trade him for a defensive dman when we have good ones on the way. Besides, Robidas aint getting any younger.
i think you could expect
a trade for a top 6 forward, not a d man. The goal is to take on cap space while also grabbing someone who can stay with the organization for a while and remain useful while also addressing a need right now. For us, given the less than stellar crop of UFAs this year, the best way to address that need is to trade for a forward who can at least play on the 2nd line and is on the younger side of 30.
Hopefully the roster spot that is open on the back end will be filled by someone like Ehrhoff or Wisniewski. If not, McCabe, or someone like him seems like a good “fill in the gap for now” type of guy who will be ready to leave in 2 or 3 years to make way for the up and comers.
Larsen is probably the most easily movable asset we have right now, and if Joe can trade him for a player that can have an impact now, as well as down the line, helps our cap situation, and also isn’t an overpayment, well, I think that’s the equivalent of finding gold
Well, he wouldn't necessarily be traded for a d-man
Could be offense as well, which is certainly a need.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
until a prospect makes significant contributions to the dallas stars...
he is tradable. this is a business and it must be viewed that way in these instances.
no problem
if we can get something good out of a trade involving him then i say go for it. we don’t have that much need for him anymore
btw
I think Grossman will actually be UFA next year
According to capgeek he's a RFA.
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
My apologies then
I need to fix my spreadsheet.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, having Grossman come up as a UFA is going to be tricky as well.
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
hell yes
if he isnt signed as we approach the trade deadline what do you do? I’d like the team to commit long term to him, but he needs to develop more physicality in front of the net before I really value him as a cornerstone type player. And with this whole situation about possibly trading Larsen the bigger overall picture is the potential defensive bottle neck in the next several years. Grossman might be the guy who gets overtaken by guys like Nemeth, Oleksiak and Vance.
It makes some sense
I’d be okay with it if we got something/someone good in return.
I agree
As long as we fill a position that we actually need, it’s a good idea. Man, I can’t wait for the 1st to get here, so we can see what happens!
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
This was in NHL.com.
“C, Tim Connolly — The Sabres have 10 forwards already signed and not much room under the cap. Connolly has had a plethora of injury woes over the years, and it may be time the Sabres went in a different direction. He has a world of talent, and it’s just a matter of staying on the ice. He will take that talent to the Western Conference. Best guess: He signs in Dallas.”
Where did they get that?
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
Cheap center that would be available...
sounds like a good “best guess” to me lol
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Hear hear...
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
they made it up
based on the fact that we need another center or a top 6 forward. Connolly would fulfill both of those, so long as he’s healthy. I would say he’s worth a look. Kari also had the “if he can stay healthy” clause attached to him. look how that turned out.
Would be okay.
Just didn’t like the story. =)
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
It's hard to imagine a defense
That contains Daley, Robidas, Goligoski and Larnse. There’s redundancy there. Quite a bit of it. So this scenario makes perfect sense if Larsen has value on the market.
I image he does...
He’ll be making a push to be on our team this season, though he won’t realistically get it. Like you said, if he makes the NHL this season, he’d be 7th D-man, or healthy scratch, and it would be better for him to develop in the minrs for another year.
As much as I might get ripped for this…. What are the odds of trading Robidas? That idea cropped up in my head sooner than Larsen did.
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Would be sad to see him go.
But it remains to be seen.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
He’s an excellent teammate, and a very hard worker. He’s also a top 4 D-man.
The question is what could we get in return if we’re willing to take on salary for another team.
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Hmm...
Komisarek?
Three years left, big money and complete failure in Toronto.
But… If he would return to form he was with Montreal? Him and Goli?
Don’t shoot the messenger. =)
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
In line I mean.
Trade would be Robidas or Larsen.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
thats because
it makes more sense. Robidas is a player who I think is overrated, but beyond that hes also a player who I can see age really taking a toll on. If we could move him for something valuable along with salary to help us reach the floor Id see it as a very positive move.
Trading Robidas creates a need to take on even more salary, however.
It’s also tough for me to see a player like Robidas, who the Stars have leaned on so heavily, be traded away. Daley? Perhaps. Fistric? Certainly a possibility. But not Robidas.
I could be wrong.
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Proud member of the Joe Nieuwendyk support team.
by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Just spit ballin' with that idea...
gotta give value to get it. (usually)
No questioning the value he has. The problem is if we could get enough value in return to justify it.
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
I hope they keep Robidas and Daley.
I like Fistric, but if you can’t have them all… So be it.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I can understand this view and I don't disagree with it at all.
I’m just taking it from the Stars point of view. Of course, Nieuwendyk needs to make some very tough decisions and Robidas could be one of those.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not against dealing Robidas, but it would have to be in the context of rebuilding.
If you trade him you’re losing your top defender most likely for prospects. May as well send his old friends on their way too.
This is exactly my point.
Trading Robidas does not fit what this team needs right now, at all. Plus, he has a limited NTC, I think.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the norm in the NHL these days, it seems
Which is……that’s probably going to be addressed in the next CBA as well.
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Robidas has some sort of NTC
I’m not sure if it’s a full NTC like Richards had, or one like Ribeiro has
i was thinking it was a 10 or 15 team
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Robi is a right shot
as well the leader of an otherwise very young d corp, on top of being a leader on the entire team as a whole. He’s also our best all around guy back there. Were all of our recently acquired prospects ready right now, that might be an option, but I don’t see it as one right now. He’s also one of the guys that epitomizes the character of the players we like to have on our team. TimAH has a point about age taking a toll on him, but it hasn’t yet, and at the moment, I think we’re gonna want to keep both halves of our top shut down pair
Columbus just traded
for rights to Wisniewski. WTF? It’s like they think they can be a real team or something
by PSyCo2012 on Jun 29, 2011 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
lol...
+10 internetz.
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Ha ha ha!
They have some nerve!
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Hmm...
Why teams like these make moves like this… ?
Well, one can dream.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Kinda scary.
Especially since the 12/29 game against CBJ is the one Stars game I’ll be seeing live next season.
Heh, good one.
I have seen them live once. Neal got out and hasn’t been the same since. Four fights in first. And… Stars lost 4-1.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 29, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember that game. That was the one where Mason and Turks both got penalties for leaving the crease to join in.
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nope
but it seemed they were still pissed about it.
by Newt Goodler on Jun 29, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope, that was the season before. This is the game where Dorsett hit the glass and flopped like a rag doll
But it did provide a lot of fire for the Blue Jackets that night.
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This is an interesting idea.
One of them reasons why White might not be an option, is his size… Same thing goes with Larsen…
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
I think Connolly would be a good fit
He’s a Right Shot which we desperately need. If the price is right I’m all for that. I wouldn’t mind trading Larsen, but honestly would could he bring. I think for us to get anything decent in return we’re going to have to part ways with Grossman or Daley. Robidas is are only right shot, so I would say no to that.
Drury is not a player I think solves any issues on this team, unfortunately.
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a player that will take up cap space
and if that doesn’t work out the Texas Rangers can pick him up and put him in their terrible bullpen
What is it about "degenerative knee condition" that people don't understand?
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Who knows. That's why the Rangers just released him instead of trading him
He would never have passed the physical and both he and the Rangers admitted it
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Yes, I know that's why they released him.
My questions is: What would possess anyone to want to sign someone who has A DEGENERATIVE KNEE CONDITION?!?!
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Ha ha! Sorry. The lack of the "?" threw me.
I just felt it necessary to reiterate I guess. I mean seriously who? … … …apparently AA6? :D
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Apparently, a lot of idiots judging from some of the comments I've seen on the net today
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Hard to trade Daley with that stupid new
deal Niewendyk gave him. Trade Robidas for offense. Ride out your mediocre year and hope you have money, better FA pool, and your young defensemen take their lumps this year and are ready next year.
Agreed
Daley’s ideal role on this team has always been offensive-defensemen. He hasn’t fulfilled that role. His skill just doesn’t match his wheels. He has an appealing contract to a contending team that needs cap relief. Plus, why would Daley not waive his no-trade clause to go to a contender?
Larsen can step into that skilled-defensemen role that we have hoped Daley would fill. We can take on a “bad” or hefty contract in return.
I've been saying it for years....
Trade Daley!
"That must be the Dallas Stars version of the shocker. You don't expect that on the other end!" Razor after Grossman went end to end
Drury or Connolly? That's tough
I probably go with Connolly, cause he still produces whenever he plays.
I’m just saying I think Daley would bring a much higher return. Daley has reached his potential
what seems most likely to me
is that we sign one dman and let larsen and fistric battle for the last spot. Larsen wins, we probalby look to trade Fistric. Fistric wins Larsen benefits from another year in the AHL. Find a way to get to the cap floor and kick the can down the road another til next year when the Stars will be much more stable.
The way
Things are going with other teams trading for rights and what not, this pool of free agents is getting even thinner,
I think the idea of trading Larsen makes the best sense out of eveyone on the roster, however, losing a good young player is something u never like to see,
I really hope Joe knows what he’s doing
You're kidding
If Larsen had been tearing up the AHL this past season my tone might be a bit different. As much hope as I have for him, however, it’s seemed that he has struggled with the physical nature of the NHL game and while he’s shown good things during brief stops with Dallas — the man loves to shoot the puck, at least — there have also been some disappointments. That’s not to say we should expect greatness right away, but you’d like to see positive progress.
He was on on the first defensive pair in Austin and I believe the Texas GM said more than once that Larsen was their best d-man. He played with a hip injury most of the year and had surgery after the season.
Let me qualify my statement a bit further...
Larsen was very good for the Texas Stars and the few games I got to see I was impressed. But when he played in 6 games with the Dallas Stars, he wasn’t the same player. He didn’t have to sort of performances that make you think “boy, he’s tearing the door down to get into the NHL.”
Jamie Benn did it in the preseason. Tomas Vincour did it and stayed for 20+ games. Larsen played like a player who wasn’t quite ready. Now, could it have been the hip injury? Perhaps.
I think he’s ready for the NHL, but I don’t think he’s going to play above Grossman, Robidas, Daley or Goligoski. Then you have whoever is added. So he battles with Fistric to play on a nightly basis.
Is that what he needs? Or would more minutes and more time in the AHL be better?
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
He needs minutes
I think you hit the nail on the head there. If he is not capable enough to play night in and night out then we are only hurting his development by having him up on the big squd.
My point
wasn’t about if he is NHL ready. I took exception to you saying he wasn’t showing “positive progress.” He showed it in the AHL and he was better during each of his call ups to the NHL. That’s positive progress.
BTW, Vincour wasn’t that great. The only reason he looked good and stayed as long as he did is because Gagnon, Morin and Wathier did nothing while they were in Dallas and Sawada got KO’d by Paille. That he got scratched the last 4 games and was invisible in the AHL playoffs tells you all you need to know.
Does anyone know the penalty for not reaching the cap floor?
As long as it’s not a loss of draft picks, I’d be fine with the Stars not meeting it by overpaying players.
You lose draft picks.
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Dreger said the other night that
you just cant not be at the floor you have to find a way period
by can we get hatcher back on Jun 29, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to $5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap.
Unfortunately you can't just pick one of those things it's all of them. :)
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
I think it means all of the first one's and "and/or" the last two.
Either way the penalty is chosen for you and not the other way around. Not really a gamble worth taking. Although there may be some teams that wind up in that very predicament.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
I wouldn't take a loss of points.
And Joe’s already said the budget will exceed the cap floor. Period.
The FA crop isn't top notch, but there is still value
I’d really like to see them take a run at Andy Greene and Handzus.
My concern about Larsen
is that he seems to get knocked off the puck too easily. He’s not exactly hard to play against, and as others here have said Gogo makes Larsen redundant right now.
What the Puck?
by DirtyBrotenScoundrel on Jun 29, 2011 2:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
This.
Larsen is very smooth and smart, but he needs more time.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe trades are neccesary at this point to acquire capable talent.
Honestly I see all of the D line minus Robi and Daley open for trade. Larsen makes sense b/c as stated he dosen’t fit the mold we are working for. Teams looking to dump contracts need decent talent at a manageable price, therefore Grossman comes into play. Fistric might have hit his ceiling, and if someone offers fair compensation, Joe will jump. In sumation, Joe is cerebral, he thinks, he calculates, he always has a plan.
What...just...happened?
I don't understand why people undervalue Alex Goligoski
He’s on par with the top offensive defensemen in the game, but people just shrug their shoulders at him.
His PPG pace with the Stars had him going for 55 points. Below is the list of defenders who have scored 50 points with the Stars.
06/07 Zubov 54
06/07 Boucher 51
05/06 Zubov 71
02/03 Zubov 55
00/01 Zubov 51
98/99 Zubov 51
97/98 Zubov 57
Dmen peak between 29-35ish. He’s 27. He should be one of the 3 most untouchable players on the roster with Loui and Benn.
I don't think RDN meant to include Goligoski.
But I understand your point…..and I hope that after seeing his play with the Stars, fans changed their minds. The guy was flat out great, logged major minutes and was far from a liability in his own end.
What made Zubov so special, however, was that we was a complete player. He wasn’t the big presence physically, but he knew how to play defense and he knew how to move the puck out of his own zone. He also knew how to score.
Zubov wasn’t perfect, either, which is something we forget. He made plenty of mistakes, but his production made up for it.
Same with Goligoski. He’s so smooth on the ice….and there were times when he had the puck in his own zone that he made the perfect read or the perfect hesitation….and then calmly made the play. He wasn’t perfect either, far from it, but the way he could generate offense is something we haven’t seen in a very long time.
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Proud member of the Joe Nieuwendyk support team.
by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Forgot about Gogo
b/c he’s safe in my book. He should be in yours.
What...just...happened?
by RealDealNeal on Jun 29, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
actually Gogo is avaliable
BUT only in a package deal for drew doughty like quality and youth. Benn and Loui are my only absolute untradeables.
What...just...happened?
by RealDealNeal on Jun 29, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
the loss of richards makes ribeiro virtually untouchable too.
barring some amazing offer we can’t refuse. Centers should be treated like gold for us right now.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 30, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Connolly
I’ve warmed up to the possibility of him. If he can just stay healthy. It optimizes the productivity and development of Benn not having to play him at center. Two years ago he had a year statistically almost exactly to what Ribs did this past season. He was actually on pace to do a little better(He only played 73 games). If you have a line with-
Morrow-Ribs-Louie
Benn-Connolly-??
That’s a fine start. Connolly seems like more of a setup man, and being a right shot and setup man is a perfect guy to play with Benn.
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Radim Vrbata
He’s a right-handed right winger who isn’t afraid to shoot the puck. He’d fit in that spot you have open there.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm liking the idea of a "healthy" Connolly as well.
He has shown he has plenty of talent, just doesn’t really have a place currently with the Sabres.
I’d prefer lines looking like this, though:
Benn-Connolly-Loui
Morrow-Ribs-???
With probably Langs on the 2nd line RW. Or Radim Vrbata would also look nice there as well…
I think Vrbata would fit better in your gap than the first one.
Ribs doesn’t shoot enough. Vrbata probably shoots too much. Vrbata will score some and whatever rebounds off would be fodder for Morrow to stuff into the net.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
And for Connelly
Playing with guys like Benn and Loui would do a lot to help him produce even more than he already does.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm getting unreasonably excited about those two lines now
lol. I agree with both of what you say, though. Connolly is a passer like Brad (though of course not as good) and Vrbata does love to shoot the puck and Ribs is still crafty. Could be some great combos.
Who knows what’s actually gonna happen in a couple of days, though.
Yeah I'm really liking the idea of both those guys
Only thing is can we afford both AND a defenseman? Connolly being about the only top 2 line center available in FA despite being injury prone..Wouldn’t be surprised if he goes for at least $4 mil. Same with Vrbata. Look at what Laich got and he didn’t even hit FA. Both those guys could cost at least $5 million who knows. I’d be happy with just one of those and hope someone we have on the roster can fill in winger spot. Maybe Ott or maybe Vincour gets it going.
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Twitter: @BloggingBevo
by BloggingBevo on Jun 29, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly
Connelly had good talent in buffalo on his wings. They shuffled a bit throughout the season so he had looks with Vanek, stafford, and pominville. I believe our talent is better, but its the same James Neal will be better in Pittsburg arguement.
What...just...happened?
by RealDealNeal on Jun 29, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Morrow could bring a good either 2 top 6 forwards or 1 top 6F and 1 top4D
I would hate to see him traded and i’m just spit balling. But Jamie Benn is the next captain of this team and the next time the Stars are a contender will be while Jamie is captain. I think the days of the Stars’ success under Morrow’s captaincy have come to and end. I"m not saying it’s Morrow’s fault because it’s not at all he’s been outstanding, but they had their runs and if not now then in the next 2-3 years I think it’s time to choose the new leader of this team. Morrow is one of my favorite players ever and I would probably cry if he got traded but the returns the Stars could get for him are tremendous
Morrow won't be traded.
That’s the last thing the Stars need right now.
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis
Proud member of the Joe Nieuwendyk support team.
by Brandon Worley on Jun 29, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
i think he has a full NTC as well
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
He'll be 35 by the time they're good again
He won’t be traded, but someone could put an offer out there to make me move him.
You know, if not for that pesky salary floor.
There was a hypothetical
trade offer from Nashville for Morrow.
Dumont (salary dump)
Franson
Colin Wilson
Morrow’s salary can be overcome. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that it won’t happen but a package like that makes Dallas better when it matters two seasons from now.
I can't imagine a scenario where Nashville would offer that package
If they did Joe should take it immediately.
I can't say for sure what would happen
but if Joe called around and told every GM Morrow’s on th market I think the offer(s) would be pretty decent. I won’t claim this would be one of them but Philly has a lot of young forwards and a guy like Morrow could help them and they’ve got a ton of good young players.
I really like Franson, but I'm not sold on Wilson
What...just...happened?
by RealDealNeal on Jun 29, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Schenn is a better
player than Wilson and as a potential first line center he probably has more value than Franson. Phillly didn’t get scraps back. Simmonds is easily worth either of the two prospects mentioned.
Simmonds was fairly mediocre last year
He isn’t as valuable as Franson or Wilson, and Mike Richards is 5-6 years younger than Morrow. Richards would be worth significantly more than Morrow on the open market.
Schenn is the most valuable piece mentioned, but I can’t imagine anyone moving anything on that level for a 32/33 year old forward.
people do crazy things
and I think you’re undervaluing both simmonds and morrow. Richards is a better player but he has his own baggage that got him dropped from Philly.
I'm not sure what I would do
if the Stars traded the Captain, but I would probably cry as well. That being said, there is no way Morrow is traded.
Dallas Baptist Ice Hockey - "One of these days we will actually win a game"
I'm leaving the Joe Support team if that happens
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
by jordan.saleh on Jun 29, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, what's the story on Babchuk?
He’s got size, right shot, put’s up some numbers, and is only 27. Is he a top 4 guy defensively?
Publisher of BloggingBevo.com
Twitter: @BloggingBevo
I'd rather have Steve Montador or Shane O'Brien
Not as good offensively or as big, but they hit people.
That being said, I wouldn’t be against adding Babchuk.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I really respect O'Brien's game. He's not young or pretty, but a great role player.
What...just...happened?
by RealDealNeal on Jun 29, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
At least we have a bit of good news today....
"I’m going on record that he read it wrong. We’ll see who’s right." - Hull Fan, in regards to Joe not trading Richards
Razor!!
The man! The myth! The legend!
My twitter sign-ins have greatly increased since this became a possibility.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
And now we can bug him directly about jinxes and whatnot
Instead of going through Ralph. I’m sure Ralph will appreciate it.
TracyJean1972: YouTube channel
@TracyJean: Twitter account
lol
That’s true. I’m sure he’ll appreciate that.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Possible Larsen Trade
If Larsen is going to be the sacrifial lamb on trading for better talent I am all for it.
Larsen has not really played for the NHL club to have the fan attachment that James Neal did.
I believe that Joe sees the team as a puzzle and he is willing to use what pieces are avaliible with the budget he has to complete the overall picture
We really need to take a deep look at all our prospects.
I really believe Larsen is just one of our top prospects to be traded soon.
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
I'm gonna get burned for this.
I say Aaron Gagnon too.
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
by jordan.saleh on Jun 29, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotta give up something you like to get something you like is the way I look at it.
I like Gagnon, but if him being packaged in a deal brings something that helps the team, I’m for it.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I really wish the best for both of them
But what are we to expect from Larsen and Gagnon. When they completely develop what kind of numbers can they put up,
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
by jordan.saleh on Jun 29, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I expect more from Larsen.
I’d like to give him more time, but if we’re in serious talks for a trade and he’s the link between us and a top 6 forward/top 4 defenseman, I think we have to do it.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
agree.
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
by jordan.saleh on Jun 29, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Gagnon is completely developed
Gagnon is what he is. He is not a prospect, he is an adult. He is also a UFA on friday so we can’t trade him unless we get him to sign a contract first. So most likely he will go to another team anyway.
by Newt Goodler on Jun 29, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Exciting times this next month should be.
Happy Birthday to me.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:11 PM CDT reply actions
I think this is gonna be the most memorable free agency period since Brett Hull was signed.
Krys Barch will have his revenge this season....
Just glad that not having money can't be an excuse this time.
Trading Larsen is a very viable option. The influx of solid, larger defensive prospects along with the Goligoski trade makes it so. The only way it really hurts us to get rid of him is if none of the other guys pan out.
Do what you can going for FAs and try and trade for whatever hole you can’t intelligently overpay for to fill.
It’s definitely going to be interesting. So many different directions could be taken. I’m excited to see where we end up.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 29, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
The salary floor is going to kill hockey again.
Teams can’t spend to it for years. Dallas being forced to spend 10 million on potentially subpar players is not a good thing. This crop has a few decent guys but all are going to earn far more than they’re worth. Why is that a good thing for Dallas and hockey in general?
I'm willing to bet it'll change in the next CBA.
For one they made it a flat $16 million or so from the cap instead of a percentage, so it never scaled correctly.
No less than 35-40 million
probably in the middle is where it should be and the cap shouldn’t exceed 60 million for two years with a COLA raise thereafter. Hockey’s not making a ton of money, at least most franchises aren’t and raising the numbers each and ever year is a disaster waiting to happen. It killed Atlanta. Its going to kill PHX. And its not doing Tampa, Dallas, Nashville, Florida, NYI or Columbus any favors.
ive thought this for awhile now
they have goligoski who fills the role that larsen would be filling and alex is only 25. when i look at larsen i see a guy who is undersized and weak defensively. he just isn’t needed anymore so why not flip him for someone you can use. its good if he stays and turns out to be a good player, but i believe he has more value to the stars as a trade chip. i say send him to someone else and get another good defensive defenseman or a top 6 forward. joe has done it before and will do it again, lets go gm joe, make it happen.
by the way worst e-news ever...
by the way worley
excellent article, i was starting to believe i was the only person thinking about this.
by the way worst e-news ever...
NO NOT LARSON
Id actually like to see Robidas go before larson,Robidas isnt a much as an asset now since Gologoski is our man
If you flip the names Robidas with Larsen in that comment
then I’d agree with you ;)
by GRees on Jun 29, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Top 6 forward? Stars need a number 1 center
Let’s be real about what the real need is here. If Eriksson is going to get his, he’s going to need at the very least a playmaking center. As playmaking centers go, Richards was top 5 in the league. We just don’t need a top 6 forward, we need someone who makes everyone on his line more productive. The closest they will come to that will be pushing Benn in the middle where he can be more of a physical force if he survives with toughness. There’s no way around your ace center walking though. It’s going to be a long, low scoring year. Somehow, when new ownership takes over, the real money will have to be spent overpaying for a number one center. Until then our top 6 is going to remain a patchwork job at best.
wait if we have been including larsen as nhl ready and we trade him
then we will need 2 more defensemen and in this crap of a FA I dont see where we would get them
GET OFF NIEUWENDYK'S NUTS
NHL ready and penciled in the lineup aren't the same thing
He could be NHL-ready and still not be one of the Stars top 6 blueliners for 2011.
definitely a possibility
I believe Joe will keep all possibilities open. I don’t think that there are any untradables. Joe would obviously be more comfortable seeing certain people leave than others, but if the deal is presented, than any player is movable. I see prospects that are knocking on the door as the most tradable assets a team could have. We could also see a player like Glennie, Chiasson or Reilly Smith moved, because they are all great prospects that will be knocking on the door in a year or two but we will probably only have room for one.
Why are we not...
Moving a low round pick for the rights of one of these soon to be free agent dmen?
Joe could also have offered something better than the platter of crap that Feaster got for Regehr.
Its a bit more than that...
Same affect but FA period doesn’t start until 12:00 eastern time Friday so almost 2 full days. If I remember correctly.
Semantics
The Stars, in recent years, have made some excellent late round picks. No reason to give those away.
Good Point
Scouting staff has done a good job there.
Because GM Joe is smart and doesn't want to throw away picks for nothing.
Rights are being traded but nobody is signing. No pending UFA is going to sign with Dallas before the deadline, it makes no sense. If we were a highly sought after destination that needed to worry about fitting their free agents under the cap then they would. It would be throwing away picks for nothing.
by Newt Goodler on Jun 29, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Calling defenseman a "position of strength" in the system...
Is stretching it a bit, I think. The only position of some strength in this (quite poor) system of young prospects is goaltending, with Campbell, Bachman and Beskorowany.
Larsen is the system’s top overall prospect right now in my opinion, given his ceiling, overall polish and proximity to the NHL. He is easily the top defensive prospect. The names you mentioned in the system all have some promise… Oleksiak has a sky high ceiling and will almost certainly at least be a regular NHLer someday. Klingberg, Nemeth, Dillon, and Vance all seemingly have the talent to be regulars years from now, but none of them would be considered great or even very good prospects.
Trading Larsen is obviously not off the table – the only untouchable in the entire organization should be Jamie Benn – but it would have to be a very good deal before you considered it. Losing Larsen would be a huge blow to the prospect depth of the system… let’s not pretend like he’s now totally expendable because of Brenden Dillon.
by disposablehero on Jun 29, 2011 10:32 PM CDT reply actions
I'm just not as excited about Larsen as some are..
I’d love to see him play with the big club before I make any more judgement, but from what I’ve seen, I think his physical game is going to be a major drawback. If he can get stronger and add 10-15 pounds I think he’ll be pretty good.
by coolcolin09 on Jun 29, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
That's my fear
of Larsen, can’t gain weight/muscle mass and gets beaten up physically, losing battles along the wall. I’d much rather move him than Glennie.
Larsen
is listed as 5’11", 185 lbs, or 6’1", 183 lbs, depending on what source you use.
Alex Goligoski?
5’11", 180 lbs.
And Larsen is 4+ years younger. Ample time to add a little bulk to his frame, but that’s not going to be his game anyway…. so it doesn’t matter that much.
by disposablehero on Jun 29, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes...
But it’s not how much you have; it’s how you use it. I was wrong to suggest just adding weight would solve the problem. Goligoski isn’t the most physical player by any means, but he still uses his body to shield the puck and lays a hit every once in a while.
Larsen, from his time in the NHL thus far, gets knocked around and off the puck way too often. No, he’s not going to or supposed to be Darien Hatcher. But when you can’t use your body effectively on defense or offensively along the boards, it’s a problem.
I like the kid and I don’t just want to give him away, I’m just not sold on him yet.
by coolcolin09 on Jun 30, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Ribiero isn't big
and weighs less but wins puck battles. Larsen in my limited exposures does not. That’s what I mean. I don’t care about the numbers I care about the results and so far there are questions as to the results he can bring to the table with is frame and health.
how could you be?
8 career NHL games. 8! And he’s a defenseman, who always take a bit longer to develop.
He’s had virtually no time in the NHL to show you anything, good or bad. To say our exposure to him has been “limited” is a vast understatement. To be disappointed and/or concerned at this point in his career is ridiculous at best. You hope to see him develop these defensive/physical attributes, of course… but there is really no basis for doubting him at this point.
by disposablehero on Jun 30, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
RW isn't bad
now with Glennie, Chaisson, R. Smith, and Ritchie.
I’d also agree that defense is light years better than two seasons ago. Lot of it is far away but there’s some NHL talent if our prospects continue their current trends.
No question
The system is light years ahead of where it was a few years ago in terms of depth, but that’s still not exactly high praise. The Stars’ would still have to be considered bottom-5-10 in the league in terms of overall system quality.
by disposablehero on Jun 29, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Woywitka
I would not rule out the Woywitka as an option of a shutdown D, not that its the best option but sure one that can be afordable and easy to get.
After this week.
Don’t have to talk about Richards anymore. Good.
I hope Joe has some good moves and can make them happen.
Would be cool to have Leino, Connelly and good D, but let’s see what goes down.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
unless he goes west.
I hope he lands in the east so we don’t hardly see him.
by Travis Drybread on Jun 30, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately...
No matter what happens people will be talking about how we lost Richards for nothing. Expect this to be even more frequent after losses.
I don't really know what there is to talk about
We have no idea what we would have gotten in trade and that would have more than likely been picks which usually take a few years to develop so there’s no way to actually know what we "lost out" on. If Richards was going no matter what then having a pick or two still doesn’t help us this year. So if we’re going to lose games as a result well that was going to happen no matter what.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Completely agree
But it will not stop people from saying it and to my point we won’t stop hearing about it. I completely support what Joe did at the deadline. We still had a good chance to make the playoffs and you increase your chances more than hurt them with Richards in the lineup.
Something I was thinking about while watching the NHL network and they had mentioned how Richards is a clutch player and always rises to the pressure in games as needed. I have not really seen it outside of Tampa cup run. It just made me wonder how he is going to respond to playing in a larger market, especially a bigger hockey market.
It will take him some time to adapt to any team he goes to just like it did here. His lowest point total was his first year here (adjusted out for 82 games, it would have been about 70pts). If he goes to a team like Toronto and does anything short of carry that team and put up 90pts they are gonna roast him for being overpaid and worthless. I am curious how he will respond to that. Considering he has spent his whole career up to this point in small markets with no real pressure.
Richards had a no trade
All the media speculation on Richards at the deadline was IMO a non-issue. He could always nix any attempt to move him at the deadline just like trading his rights. No one can really hold Joe responsible. The finger pointing needs to reflect back on the owners who had all year to find a new owner and sat back and let this year expire waiting for someone to bite at their debt laden loans. Everyone loses. This one ties back to the lack of urgency that now devalues the team for yet another year. There’s no way you recover from letting your number one player go without the owners taking a punch in the face financially now. These creditors just make bad decisions coming and going. Hicks and his creditors are cut from the same cloth.
by giveandgo4real on Jun 30, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a fair point that most people seem to forget
He’d have had to approve it and there’s no certainty that he would have. The blame though does surely fit squarely on the shoulders of Tom “F” Hicks.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
True
I really think he has no desire to go to Toronto. It seems like a miserable place to actually play hockey. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Heika suggests that the players were questioning decisions such as Woywitka over Mark Fistric --Brad Gardner
Maybe that's why Woywitka had that puzzled face after that goal....
"Shouldn’t Fistric have scored that?!" --Tsudbury
Hear hear.
Good times are here and Stars will take what belongs to them. Sooner or Later.
by Henri Muroke on Jun 30, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions

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