Why Tomas Vincour Is Breaking Camp As A Dallas Star
The story of training camp has been the apparent rapid ascent of Tomas Vincour. He broke in with the big club for 24 games in 2011 after a rash of injuries, and he never really looked out of place. He didn't score much at all, but one never got the sense that this was a kid barely out of juniors who didn't belong on an NHL rink. So far as a professional the Vincour story has centered around his lack of offensive production, and most feel that his lack of offensive production limits his ultimate ceiling.
I am not one of those. There are some players that put up hollow stats where you have no idea how good that player really is. There are also some players that put up relatively few counting stats, but the lack of production hides the fact that the player is actually very valuable. I think Tomas Vincour is part of the latter category, and I think the Stars do too which is why he is on the cusp of beginning his first season with an NHL roster spot out of camp.
Vincour has a boatload of potential, and he has loads of current value that traditional goal, assist, and +/- totals hide. He has everything you'd want from a young player except actualized results. There is no reason to think those results couldn't come this season. Follow the jump to find out why Vincour could make a big mark on the 2012 Dallas Stars.
**Disclaimer**
I need to put a disclaimer at the top of this post. Tomas Vincour only played in 24 games last year at the NHL level for a total of 226 minutes and 15 seconds. His 24 games is roughly 1/3 of a season, but he only averaged 9 minutes per game. This is a small sample size, but it's also over a long enough period of time to make you really take a step back to consider what type of impact Vincour can have on the 2011-12 Stars. I will be referencing a few Hockey Metrics so if some concept is foreign please click here to solve any questions, or ask if something still doesn't become clear.
I know disclaimers are supposed to be something an author of any kind is supposed to create, but then act like it isn't there. I'm breaking that rule. Make sure you read that before moving on. Ok... /rant
Tomas Vincour had an great season last year as an NHL rookie. In his first 24 games as an NHLer Vincour deposited one puck into the net, and assisted on another goal. This production probably seems underwhelming to you, and if it does don't feel crazy. One goal and one assist in 24 games should look underwhelming, but the fact that his offensive counting stats are underwhelming is the very reason why his contributions from his 24 game debut are going unnoticed. What we know about Vincour's game is that he is good in the offensive zone on the cycle, he does well along the boards, and he's responsible in his own end. What about his game are we missing with contemporary stats though?
Contemporary stats hide that fact that Tomas Vincour was a possession fiend in his debut.
Vincour had a 12.7 Corsi Relative. If you'll recall that means that when Vincour was on the ice his unit would be expected to generate 12.7 more scoring chances over the course of 60 minutes than any line that doesn't include him. His 12.7 is by far the highest of any Stars forward last year coming in ahead of Tom Wandell's 7.3. It's true that he started most of his shifts in the offensive or neutral zones, but he wasn't thrown out on the ice against opposing rookies or fourth liners. His CorsiRelQoC (the aggregate Quality of Competition he faced) was the 5th highest of any Stars forward last year.
One interpretation of this is that Vincour is a possession fiend. When his units got the puck they made sure they directed it towards the net, and when they didn't have the puck they limited the amount of scoring chances they gave up. It's a small sample for sure, but for a player as relatively inexperienced as Vincour to be moving the needle that much is eye opening. Scoring goals requires that you have possession of the puck. You have to be able to finish though, and Vincour did struggle with finishing last year.
Vincour finished last season with a shooting percentage of less than 4% when the league average shooting percentage is somewhere around 9 to 11%. That 4% is abrnormally low. One would expect the bad luck associated with a shooting percentage that poor to even out. He wasn't afraid to shoot though. He took the 6th most shots per 60 minutes of any Stars forward last year, but since he had relatively few minutes his overall shot total was low.
If you assume that Vincour is going to see an increase in ice time a real dilemma develops when trying to assess his potential for thie 2012 season. You're adding the expectation of a higher shooting percentage, lots of possession, a coach that trusts him from their shared time in the AHL, and increased ice time together in this projection equation. Those factors all suggest a surge in production. Tomas Vincour actually looks like a big time breakout candidate,
There is little reason to think that Vincour can't be a solid 3rd line player for the 2012 Stars, but I thought of an interesting comp for Vincour. His game and history are eerily similar to that of Johan Franzen of the Detroit Red Wings. Both guys are big. Both guys battle along the boards. They both possess the puck at a very high rate, got out of the gates slowly, and have a similar distribution of zone starts though, at this point, Franzen naturally takes a higher number of defensive zone draws than Vincour.
I was very surprised to see these numbers, but they pass the eye test. Vincour was a very good player for the Stars after his promotion. I was hesitant to compare his potential to that of Johan Franzen, but the more I think about it the more comfortable I get with the comparison. It might take him a while to get there, but his 1/3 of a season run last season appears to be significant. He will be given a chance to prove he's ready for the next step starting Friday, and all reports have discussed how hard Vincour has been working this offseason. That's all you can ask for from a young player, and hopefully that hard work actualizes into NHL production beginning this season.
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I think it's fair to say this is more writing about Vincour than all previous Vincour writings combined.
Solid points here.
This guy was able to play the role of grinder on the 3rd and 4th lines last season with no issues. He never really made any “rookie” mistakes (granted he didn’t have much time to) and when he was on the ice, he was noticeable.
He’s not afraid to stick his nose into the corner and battle for the puck.
If Vincour can stay with the big club this season, he should be able to have a large impact within the bottom six.
And he could fall flat on his face this year.
But, he’s an upside play, and teams picked to unanimously miss the playoffs have little reason not to go with an upside play like Vincour. I hope he seizes the opportunity.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Great post
Vincour passes the eye test when you see him play, but for those that don’t, all they see is the underwhelming point totals. This finally provides some numbers to represent him.
As for his dominant puck possession but inability to finish, if the Ott-Benn-Vincour line appears on opening night, I’ll be excited. After all, I hear that Benn kid has finished off a few goals in his time.
Benn and Vincour had some great chemistry last season and it looks like Gulutzan is really playing on that.
He and Vincour have been practicing together all week long.
I can’t express how excited I am about seeing if he can take the next step. Heck, 10 goals would be a great step up.
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I was thinking Eriksson Benn and Vincour made a lot of sense
Ott and Vincour on the second line together seems counter-productive to me, and if Ott is still going to take a ton of PIMs then Vincour is a better fit on that line.
Now, if Eriksson really is on the third line then all bets are off.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
This is the line I have been wanting to see
Some concerns over faceoffs without Ott … But these guys are good enough defensively to just get the puck back if they loose the faceoff. If the Stars are committed to Benn at center he has to fly solo at some point.
I am very interested to see what Loui could do from his natural side.
You know what this post really needs?
More disclaimer.
I’m definitely excited about his potential. It’ll be interesting to see if he can still generate the scoring chances that he did during preseason, and last season as well. I’m hoping he learns that scoring touch. If he does, man alive is he going to be deadly!
"He punched the highlights out of her hair.... He punched the HIGHLIGHTS out of her hair!!!" -- Young Neil
Shooting percentage generally varies from year to year.
If you believe he’s an NHLer, and that he can generate the amount of shots that he generated last year then you have to think he isn’t going to keep shooting 3.4%.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I'm
excited that it appears he’ll get a shot on the “2nd” line. If he can start burying the puck that could be a great line for years to come. Great combination of skill, size, and speed.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Oct 6, 2011 4:12 PM CDT reply actions
i really like this guy
but im not as excited about him as i was last year. i think he could be a great defensive and energy guy, but after looking at his numbers from the minors i just dont think he’s going to have much of an impact offensively. hopefully im wrong but he’s never been a big time offensive player, so i think his ability is somewhat limited. but he does pass the eyeball test for sure, either way im thrilled that he’ll start the season with the big club.
by the way worst e-news ever...
i apologize
i just looked at his stats again and he has had some offensive production in the past. ive been at work all day and havent slept well this week, thats a double whammy…
by the way worst e-news ever...
by heyitsthatguy! on Oct 6, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding his time in CP
apparently he didn’t look as good down there as he did in Dallas. Which seems backwards. Whether it was motivation or what I don’t know but some say his game fits better in the NHL whatever that means. He did score pretty well in juniors.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Oct 6, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
You have to look at what causes scoring.
That would be shots/scoring chances and the possession that leads to them. He does the things you want, but he hasn’t gotten the results. You have to trust the process with a young player. If he’s doing everything he needs to do then it’s reasonable to expect results at some point.
I’m not going to tell you that he’s the next Mario Lemieux or anything, but if they found a responsible 20 goal scorer in the 5th round then kudos to the scouts.
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
He also played for some very bad teams in the WHL.
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by Brandon Worley on Oct 6, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
As an 18-20 year old from the Czech Republic in Western Canada
I doubt that’s an easy transition to make.
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
He went from the Edmonton Oil Kings...a bad team...to the Vancouver Giants.
As soon as he was traded, he put up some impressive numbers. I had some friends that go to Vancouver games and said he looked like a completely different player.
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by Brandon Worley on Oct 6, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
i really line vincour i went crazy when he got hid first goal
i was at the game and told my gf watch that guy. and he scored
GET OFF NIEUWENDYK'S NUTS
Interesting to see the positive metrics
Cause I know Vincour passed my eyeball test. He looked very poised last year against upper level lines. He was hard to knock off the puck and was tenacious in the corners. I was probably most impressed at how he would skate hard to be effective in the back check. Even though he is a very young player, I trusted him on the ice. He got earned some very good looks at the goal, but just had difficulties getting it in. I think that will come. But even if it doesn’t he does a lot of things right and is generating chances for his line mates.
He
just looked like he belonged, despite a lack of scoring, no matter what kind of line he was on. That’s impressive being so young in your first NHL stint.
by StarzenheimerSchmidt on Oct 7, 2011 11:07 AM CDT reply actions

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