Stars Pass on Fowler, Gormley, Draft Goaltender Jack Campbell at #11
If you were to tell us that the Dallas Stars selected U.S. goaltending prospect Jack Campbell at #11, and we hadn't seen any of the other picks or the way in it unfolded, we would not have been surprised. We had been hearing (rather "off the record," so to speak) that the Stars were quite taken with the young man, and were zeroing in on him as well as Derek Forbort. I adjusted the draft preview on Friday morning to match, thinking there was a good chance they'd take him.
The problem is, we do know how it unfolded and we're left now to look back on a weird first round that has most Stars fans scratching their heads. The bottom line is that Dallas had a chance to draft what the hockey community considered "top 5" talent at #11, and they passed on it without any apparent hesitation.
Why?
Joe Nieuwendyk would say later on in the evening that they feel Campbell is a franchise player, on the level of Hall and Seguin. General Managers say these kinds of things about young men they've just committed to. It happens. But with all the attention the Stars have paid to Campbell this weekend, you kind of get the sense that they mean it. Dallas said before the draft that they would take the best player on their board. If this isn't a reaffirmation of that, I don't know what is.
The sad thing is that most fans seem to be focusing on what kind of player he ISN'T rather than what kind of player he IS. Taking a goaltender in the first round is a bit of a gamble, but you don't get to be in the top 10 of most draft rankings by some kind of sublime accident. Jack Campbell is a big kid: A fierce competitor, brimming with confidence, and more importantly he's a proven winner. He is a blue chip goaltending prospect in a system that didn't have any a couple of hours ago.
The key word there is prospect, which Cam Fowler and Gormley would have been as well, admit it or not...
No Help Next Season
The lack of defense in the system is sometimes confused in discussions with the obvious defensive shortcomings of the NHL club. The two are completely different entities and only one was going to be helped with the #11 pick. Fowler, Gormley, Forbort...none of these are NHL ready and none were going to help Dallas next year. That's not the need that the Stars were satisfying with the #11 pick, whoever it was going to be. That pick was always going to contribute to the long term health of the organization.
For help with the NHL level defense, a trade for an established NHL player is the only way to go. Given that we have completed only one round of the draft and exactly 0 days of the free agency period, it's difficult to judge what Joe Nieuwendyk has done to help the Dallas Stars make the playoffs next season, which is what we would all like to see. I am going to reserve my judgment of this off-season until I have all the information necessary to make a proper one.
The Goaltending Well is Dry
The quantity of goaltenders in the Stars system has nothing to do with the shape that it's in. Matt Climie and Brent Krahn (27 and 28 years old) do not represent any kind of future for the team at the NHL level. Barring some kind of legendary transformation, the two are fine AHL caliber players that do not a Marty Turco replacement make.
Richard Bachman, a 22 year old 4th round pick cannot be written off so easily given how far he still has to go, but his 5'10" frame and mediocre career path thus far do not make him a prime candidate to lead the Stars anywhere in the future, much less a Stanley Cup.
Tyler Beskorowany, the 6'4" 20 year old who impressed everyone at Stars training camp last year is a different story. I was sufficiently enthused by his performance last September that I won't say a bad word against him just yet, but the experts consider him to be a less than steallar goaltending prospect.
Jack Campbell isn't the sexy pick. He may not have been the best pick, but he's one that can help this organization and I think that once we get over our brand name lust that was given and taken away so abruptly by the draft gods, I hope we can appreciate what we DID get a little more.
Nieuwendyk told the Dallas Morning News "There was a time when we had Eddie Belfour and we had players like Martty Turco, Roman Turek and Manny Fernandez pushing him and pushing each other. That competition, I think, was great for Eddie and great for everyone else. Then, you look back at how Mike Smith and Dan Ellis pushed each other. That's what you need in an organization. It's still the most important position in hockey, and I think we're in good shape here now.'' [DMN]
You Don't Need Good Goaltending To Win? "Look at the Blackhawks!"
That's silly. It is the single most important position on the ice.
In a town where people have mercilessly complained about Marty Turco's play season after season, it is the irony of the evening that they would dog pile on the Stars scouting staff for making the position a priority. Perhaps that's my opinion coming through a little too strongly there and I apologize for that, but that's the way I feel.
I do, however, subscribe to the notion that you must put a competent defense in front of any kind of goaltender, be he hall of fame quality or Kari Lehtonen. Yet when you're taking kids in a draft aimed, as all drafts are in the NHL, at improving your team 3-5 years down the road can you afford to ignore what your scouts are telling you about someone they feel is near can't miss?
Time Will Tell
As in all sports, you can't judge a draft before it's over. You can only hope to judge it 3 to 5 years down the road when the dust settles and guys mature. The problem with drafting defensemen is that a lot of GM's these days feel that they take much longer to develop; Nearly until they reach UFA status. How else can the slide of Fowler and Gormley be explained this evening?
The real unfortunate thing (that I as a fan have the luxury of worrying about) is that the Ducks, Coyotes and Kings are the ones who took the defenders we were coveting the most. Joe Nieuwendyk can't worry about those kinds of things, but I can, and I do. If those young men develop into Star-killers for the next two decades, the name Jack Campbell will be cringe worthy for an entire generation of Stars fans.
When you had Johansen going at #4 and McIlrath going at #10 (THAT is the real head scratcher), Jack Campbell at #11 isn't going to be the weirdest memory from the 2010 NHL Draft.
Marty Turco told ESPN he likes the pick:
"Except that he's bigger and has accomplished a lot more at a young age than I did," Turco said. "I got started late. But he has that inner confidence, which is something I cherish. I'm glad the Stars drafted him. Any team would be lucky to have him. I expect great things from him. With my era ending, picking him, it feels like things come full circle."
So let's just take a deep breath. I was disappointed when the pick was announced, but I can see why the made it. These are all gambles at this stage. These are all prospects.
I am so tired of talking about the bad. We have no money. Our defense sucks. Our goaltender is a question mark. Our owner needs to go. We have NO MONEY.
I am going to stay defiantly positive on this one for a change. Jack Campbell is a veritable bad-ass, and pardon my bubbling patriotism, he's an American who just won us a gold medal at the World Juniors. I like it. We'll see you in 2-4 years, Mr. Campbell. Make this pick worth it.
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Terrible Pick
This team should have picked 4 d-man this draft – this was a terrible pick.
Jack Campbell is an excellent pick
He is so money. It just looks bad when Fowler/Gormley are available.
He’s the top goalie in the class, and the Stars got him at 11. On face value it’s a very good selection. It only looks less than that when you consider Fowler/Gormley being available.
Yup
If Fowler and Gormley are gone I don’t have a problem with the pick. However, with those two still on the board, it is straight up negligent. This team is hurting for D-men and this debable and last years draft debacle hasn’t helped the cause. Hopefully once a new owner comes in Joe is gone because he is out of his league. He could possibly redeem himself with a great Ribs trade, but I’m not holding my breathe. I’ve yet to see one move of his that I approve of. No trade, contract extension, draft pick has been good.
You can't keep blasting the pick just because you don't like it
If they had taken a terrible pick — fine, go ahead. But Campbell is an excellent choice. Both goaltending and D-men are bare, and it’s going to take several years to restock both parts — neither can be fixed immediately, let alone fix the Stars’ woes at the NHL level.
It’s a million times easier to pick up a great D-man on FA or trade than pick up a #1 goalie.
Before you pull the trigger on that gun your so keen to hold to Joe’s head, why don’t you at least wait until after free agency?
Besides that, the contract extensions he’s been able to hand out so far have been brilliant, considering the corner he’s been backed into by Hicks. Stop blaming Joe for the problems with the team, and blame Hicks and his self imposed cap. Good GMs know how to build correctly, and it takes 3-5 years to see what kind of work they really put into it. The perfect evidence is the former blackhawks gm who built a stanley cup winning team, but was let go right before they won it.
Just sit back, take a breath, and wait to see what happens.
What?
Not a single contract extention has been brilliant – they have been from terrible (Ott) to otherwise meh. Goalies can be found and considering the bust rate of 1st round goalies, which you have to take into account, the best pick for the franchise was a D-man. The available D’s were BPA and they also filled a need. There is no way that you can tell me that Campbell was the BPA and when you know that Campbell isn’t the BPA your pick is not good. It is simple as that. When drafting, you take the BPA and the Stars did not do it.
You serious?
Ott was a terrible extension? Come on man, Ott is the reason that although low, there were as many butts in the seats the past season. Without Otter AAC runs at 80% capacity. And he has done nothing but improve year after year. Now I’m a little biased because I love #29 but there’s 29 other teams in the league that would have paid him more than we do but he stayed for you because he loves this team, it’s fans, and Dallas. I feel like the Lehtonen extenstion was a lot more questionable than the Ott extention. And long story short, everything about Campbell proves to be solid and again, I feel like this team trades for top D so they can win now, vs. drafting a guy and seeing if he works out 3 years down the road. All this pick does is make sure Lehtonen stays on his toes and stays competitive.
bigtill
Ott didn’t give this team a discount. He got top dollar and maybe even more. There’s no argument that he’s a fan favorite but don’t act like that contract is good. Its not. Its too much money for too long a term for a guy who doesn’t hold down a top six spot, isn’t great defensively, and without ribs being gone half the season doesn’t get on that line with benn and morrow to get 20 goals. He’s Avery except he’s liked by his teammates. Avery wasn’t worth the money, Ott’s not either.
Burrows is a discount. Chris Neil is a bargin in comparison.
There's no jury...
In the court of opinion. And to say that he didn’t take less money than he could have gotten is foolish. But I certainly don’t understand what’s so terrible about the extension when it’s a player that every other team wants but hates to play against. Aside from that, he’ll be on that line when Ribs gets traded. Hull Fan we’ve had many of good arguments here on DBD but I’m curious if there is a single player worth his contract in your opinion.
sure Eriksson has a great contract
I’m not upset with Lehtonen’s extension. He was going to get 3 million regardless so a little extra for another year doesn’t bother me.
Ribiero has a great contract for his production. Niskanen, Fistric and Grossman all are reasonably paid. Brunnstrom’s QO will be less than a million. I don’t care for giving Peterson the 2nd year but the money is reasonable.
The point is there aren’t teams falling all over themselves to sign guys like Ott for 3 million. Ian Laperriere isn’t get that kind of coin. RFA to be Dan Carcillo won’t sniff a contract like that. Burrows like I said is two times the player Ott is and cost 1/3 less.
Ott and Robidas’ extension is the reason Ribiero has to be traded to pay for a good defenseman. Is the team better without Ribs in order to keep those two?
I think Joe
Made the offer with the future in mind. Will the team be on a shoestring budget in two years? No, that’s why all the extensions he’s signed as of late have been back heavy. Aside from that, when you consider that Ribs tends to slow the game down a bit and is pass happy, I don’t see the point in keeping him especially after the season he had, he’d be good trade bait for any team. Ott and Robi fit the blue collar personna this team has while Ribs individual showboating attitude doesn’t seem to fit the mold. And absolutely the team is better without Ribs because it means they signed a solid defender. Oh and can we include Nisky and Daley in the trade? Both are weak and overrated. I’m sorry if I like guys that are willing to take the opposition to the glass, not guys that are forwards in defenseman skate.
You have no idea what the budget will be like
the Rangers were supposed to be sold a year ago and its still in court. The Stars could be sold by december but I doubt it. Even then that’s not carte blanch to add payroll from the get go. What if the stars fall flat on their face this season, which could happen if the defense isn’t improved. They may sell at the deadline and still be several years away. Spending to the cap isn’t guaranteed.
This team doesn’t have a blue collar persona. They have no persona at all and that’s part of the problem. Most of them are extremely quiet and the few loud ones aren’t the important guys the younger teammates should follow.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Signing a defensemen does not automatically mean the defense is better. It certainly doesn’t mean that it will automatically overcome the loss of offense from Ribiero to Benn. Ask NYR if they’re better with Wade Redden. Or Toronto with Beauchemin. Sidenberg didn’t deliver the Cup. Souray hasn’t turned around Edmonton. Ballard is on his 4th team. John Michael Liles can’t be run out of Colorado fast enough for their fans and the list goes on. Bouwmeester in Calgary. Phaneuf in Toronto isn’t going to put them over the top, without a lot of help. Chara didn’t get Boston in the finals. Dan Boyle hasn’t toppled Chicago and these last two teams are overall significantly better than Dallas right now.
How many “puck moving” defensemen are physical as well? The list of players on the block doesn’t include anyone that fits both those criteria. At least not anyone Dallas can afford, other teams would trade or FA like Paul Martin that would have any reason to sign here.
Stop trying to imagine what this team could be and look at it for what it is. Then let’s talk about what they need to do.
How many
Of the teams you just spouted off have the forward depth we have? Our 2nd line could play a 1st line any day of the week. Although I’ll agree that you can’t guess the future, to say the next owner will have a $45m payroll is silly. How is two years not a reasonable timeline to sell the franchise? Keep in mind, I’m a huge Ranger fan so I’ve been following the Rangers sale closely (love ya, lonestarball.com) And how am I not looking at this team for what it is? It’s a defenseman and franchise goalie away from being a cup contender which I feel is quite transparent amongst any fan. I can totally see how you feel there is no vocal leader on this team, but at the same time, I feel like these guys are the kind of guys that bring their lunch pale to work everyday and I look up to that. And unfortunately I’m kinda a dumb hockey player so I don’t know what “post hoc ergo propter hoc” means. I have a feeling it has a resemblance to “don’t put the cart before the horse” if my high school education is to do any service to me. And if there are no puck moving defensemen, who do you feel best suits the Dallas blue line if all the stars and planets lined up?
Of the teams you just spouted off have the forward depth we have? Our 2nd line could play a 1st line any day of the week.
Do you remember when Ribiero was out of the lineup and teams had last change against Richards and company? The offense completely disappeared and the team struggled even worse than they were. Ribiero is a big part of that offense and replacing him with Benn at center does not mean that this team will be nearly as potent scoring as they have been the last two years. Benn, Neal, Ott and Morrow could all have great or horrible seasons for several different reasons. I’m not questioning their talent or determination but penciling them in and expecting 200 total goals is optimistic in the extreme.
Although I’ll agree that you can’t guess the future, to say the next owner will have a $45m payroll is silly. How is two years not a reasonable timeline to sell the franchise? Keep in mind, I’m a huge Ranger fan so I’ve been following the Rangers sale closely (love ya, lonestarball.com)
Its not silly to imagine that the new owner won’t automatically spend to the cap. They made add a player via trade or free agency but they still have to have payroll room for extending their own players and the owner just spent 200 million or whatever the sale price will be adding an additional 14 million in payroll from the get go isn’t going to happen. Just like the Rangers aren’t going to go from a 65 million dollar payroll to a 85 million dollar one this offseason (assuming the sale gets finalized anytime soon.) Two years should be reasonable. It should have been for the Rangers too though and here we still sit in this process.
And how am I not looking at this team for what it is? It’s a defenseman and franchise goalie away from being a cup contender which I feel is quite transparent amongst any fan.
Duncan Keith alone doesn’t make this team a surefire playoff contender. He’s a fantastic d-man but this team still has issues. Can Lehtonen stay healthy? Will management keep putting Niskanen on the ice if he continues to fail? Is Skrastins still getting minutes? Daley isn’t that good and the forward group as a whole was terrible about coming back and helping in their own zone. Besides, back to that first point, there are no surefire number one defensemen that are on the market available for Dallas to acquire. Paul Martin is probably closest to that but what possible reason could he have to sign with a struggling Dallas franchise? He’ll get more money elsewhere. He’ll be albe to sign to play for a better team than he would here. Tom Gilbert is decent but Edmonton is trying to foist Souray on the club. Maybe you can pry Cody Franson from Nashville but he’s a young guy who will have ups and downs like all young defensemen. Ballard’s already been moved. Same with Wideman. Kaberle would help tremendously with transition but he’s not a rock in his own zone. There’s no magical fix and it appears that most of the rest of the west has gotten better while Dallas has not.
I can totally see how you feel there is no vocal leader on this team, but at the same time, I feel like these guys are the kind of guys that bring their lunch pale to work everyday and I look up to that. And unfortunately I’m kinda a dumb hockey player so I don’t know what "post hoc ergo propter hoc" means. I have a feeling it has a resemblance to "don’t put the cart before the horse" if my high school education is to do any service to me. And if there are no puck moving defensemen, who do you feel best suits the Dallas blue line if all the stars and planets lined up?
For me I like Brad Richards the player but there’s no question he’s lazy on the defensive side of things. James Neal has all the talent in the world but can’t be bothered to backcheck to save his life. Benn is much better but he’s also going to be playing center and make mistakes that come with a new position and being young in the NHL. Who knows who’s going to be on the 3rd and 4th lines. It seemed at times there just wasn’t a lot of try in some of these players. I don’t know what to make of Morrow’s year. Some nights it was like he didn’t even bother to dress. Everyone has blamed it on his knee but I saw passion, effort, drive and determination in Team Canada Morrow, none of that returned when he came back after the Olympics. He and Benn had pretty much zero chemistry and I worry that a line of Morrow-Benn-Ott is a disaster offensively and defensively waiting to happen.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc – (Latin, after this, so because of this) The fallacy of arguing that because one event happened after another, it happened because of it. IE, to borrow argument from lsb poster Josey Wales, because Nolan Ryan was hired everything good that happened afterwards for the Rangers is because of him. Just because C follows A and B does not be A and B caused C.
Tangentially, in hockey terms here, trading Ribiero, either for a defensemen or for money to sign a defenseman, does not mean the team will automatically be better. They may only be trading offense for defense and the overall result will not be significantly better especially in a division that can be argued to be one of the toughest in hockey.
I’m going to make a fanpost with possible Ribiero destinations so look for that in about a half hour or so. Its an interesting discussion that shouldn’t be limited to you and I in this post half way down the board.
I don't know.
Looking at Campbell more, it’s probably gonna be alright. I suppose there’s nothing wrong with taking a goaltender if they truly believe he’ll be great.
But it just seems like the Stars have bigger needs at D (though they certainly know their own system better than anyone else), regardless of whether we’re talking now or in the future, and while it may seem easier to find a top D-man than a top goaltender, it seems like the chances to take a Top D-man presented to them today aren’t gonna happen again. So, while I like Campbell, I guess I’m just not a fan of taking him in those circumstances. He’ll probably prove his worth though, and make me look dumb in the process, so good on him.
by Giant Space Ants on Jun 26, 2010 12:21 AM CDT reply actions
Awkward....
So what is with that woman who kept trying to pimp the Red Wings? I like this kid; he just kind of looks at her like “wtf?” and says “No, just Marty”. AWKWARD SILENCE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The pick was good. We need future goaltending and we all know how hard it is to get that import position well stocked. Any D drafted would be a longtime coming anyway. We need help in the D dept. NOW! Meaning they need to find us a good #1 D man now, or someone that is very solid to help out. We can not afford the luxury of waiting for a good solid D-man to mature into the position. But we all know the financial situation, so dont hold your breath. ;)
Expect to see him in Windsor for the next two years
But I still get to play him in NHL 11.
I am still "FRISKY FOR NISKY"
ok, SEVER OPTIMISM
so now what? We do have our second and third picks so we should go all Dmen right? there are still some very solid ones left IMO from the reading I’ve done. Should we try to trade ribs still? or sit on it and see what happens? In other news the Blues and the number one overall pick Eric Johnson (a big strapping Dman) cant agree on an extension. Why not go for him or trade for his rights?
Without even looking at what kind of deal he wants
I just assume, as a Stars fan, that we can’t afford to sign someone who’s in a dispute with another team. That sounds like money Tom Hicks doesn’t have. We still haven’t hammered out Neal or Grossman’s raises yet. That should take care of the rest of the limited budget.
by Brad Gardner on Jun 26, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
any thing new
on the trade front any rumors or what have ya
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
Ribs has been rumored in discussions with the Blues
But a blues exec had said anything is “unlikely”. Before the draft, rumors were aplenty about the Stars shopping Ribs, but now ESPN is saying the stars arent actively shopping him but instead listening.
I am still "FRISKY FOR NISKY"
by RealDealNeal on Jun 26, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like Joe had all his discussions
And didn’t hear back what he wanted.
So maybe he stays. Maybe this team is exactly the same next year and we just kind of wait for new ownership to loosen the purse strings some day down the road.
maybe.
by Brad Gardner on Jun 26, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
From what I'm hearing they want him gone for off
the ice reasons. They’ll take cents on the dollar but I seriously doubt Ribiero is in uniform for the Stars when they break camp.
I would be interested in reading the things you have read
Because the only thing I’ve heard is that one single missed meeting last year as an “off ice thing.”
Clearly I’m missing out on some information.
by Brad Gardner on Jun 28, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions


















