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Is Shouting "Stars" During The Star Spangled Banner Wrong?

There's been a lot of chatter on the internet the past few days following a certain blog posting by a man named Rob Otto of mlive.com, and particularly a re-posting of it on Puck Daddy of Yahoo Sports fame.

The issue in question has been largely the Chicago Blackhawks and their fans cheering during the Star Spangled Banner. Upon first reading about this, I was under the impression that the cheering was drowning out the song itself. I have since seen this video, and find myself border-line flabbergasted at the implication. The only thing that is is a really awesome scene. It's a playoff atmosphere. It's the epitome of excitement and anticipation. (It's Chicago fans still venting, following what felt like eons of bad hockey, but I digress...)

Invariably, Dallas has been pulled into this debate. A debate, Google reveals, that has been taking place on the internet for many, many years. Stars fans at the American Airlines Center, and before that at Reunion Arena, shout "Stars!" twice during the performance of the song, in concert with the performer. Perhaps someone could fill us in on when exactly this tradition came into being, but in the 12+ years I've lived in Dallas, it seems to me it's always been that way. Capitals fans have a similar tradition, though it first came from the Orioles.

Is it disrespectful? Is it harmless enthusiasm? If you could put a stop to it, how would you go about it?

I don't yell "Stars" at the games. I never have, save one occasion. My wife does, and I don't have a problem with it. I think it's fine actually, and I'll tell you why.

Follow the jump for more...

Star-divide

The Why's and the What-For's

A discussion of the anthem at sporting events must almost certainly start with: "Why do we sing the anthem before sporting events?"

A definitive answer or origin is hard to pin down, but all signs point to baseball. Some will tell you it was a game in Philadelphia in 1897, others will say it was during the first World War in 1918 that the tradition started to take hold...I know not for certain. We do it. We're not going to stop doing it. I like it, personally. It's become a part of the fabric of sports. The last several measures of the Star Spangled Banner at any sporting event in this country are nearly always accompanied by some (inebriated?) patrons whistling and cheering. It lends an air of excitement to the moment and there's nothing wrong with that cheering. So why is it wrong in Chicago to cheer the entire thing?

These days it seems the "honest to God" patriotism of it (in the U.S.) is saved mostly for momentous occasions like national holidays, tragedies, and of course, the all important Super Bowl. The vast majority of fans will stand. They remove their caps. They stop eating. They stop texting. They may even put their right hand over their heart, and they may even mutter along. Patriotism isn't mandated in a setting where invariably there are people in the very same building getting drunk, buying a pretzel, or going to the bathroom DURING the anthem. Even in Montreal or Edmonton during a raucous chorus of "Oh, Canada" you cannot prevent these things.

To some, a valid question is "Why stop at sporting events? Why not other entertainment venues like movies or concerts?"

Whose broad stripes and bright "Stars!"

A very old friend of mine, college roommate, best-man in my wedding, etc is in the Navy. I have brought him to Stars games in the past, as recently as December. He yells "Stars" during the anthem. He didn't seem offended.

Some people might be. That's their right, but I don't understand why. I believe the context allows for some latitude. I think the people in Dallas, and all over the country in general, are respectful of the anthem. Using it to build excitement about the team people came to see does not detract from the symbolic nature of the flag and the song if it's truly important to you. Yelling "Stars" makes the anthem that much more special in Dallas rather than a routine witnessed hundreds of times by season ticket holders. It happens with the anthem. It does not subtract from it.

I wasn't born in Texas, and I certainly didn't "get here as soon as I could," but having lived here for quite a while now I feel quite confident in saying that Texans are the kind of people who have a great respect for their military and their country. I don't want to interject politics into this discussion, but I think everyone knows where I am going with this.

And if you don't believe me, come to a Stars game. About 20 minutes after the crowd yells "Stars!" twice during the anthem, we do something else. We stand. All of us. All 18,532 on a good night. We stand at the first commercial break and we honor a particular man or woman in the armed services, and ALL servicemen in the arena. Brad Richards currently donates tickets for this very purpose, and the the first commercial break of the evening has been used for years in this manner.

I've said it here before: Fans in Dallas don't stand up for much. They stand for that, though.

I have sufficient reverence for the flag, the anthem, and this great nation of ours that I choose not to yell "Stars" during the anthem, but I support those that do.

Oh Say can "Jussi!"

Questioning the patriotism of others is a slippery, contradictory slope. You do what you want in this country. That's what's great about it. Even so, using the anthem to disparage something is disrespectful in my book. So the "Red Wings Suck!" chants that emanate from a tiny minority of Stars fans and others around the league when the word "red" occurs is not my favorite.

The "border" wars during anthems in the playoffs are unfortunate should any booing occur. We've seen this go both ways. Booing the other country's anthem is foolish. Singing your own with increasing enthusiasm is a better response, and an awesome scene to behold.

The Anaheim Duck fans in some recent year, I don't recall, that actually booed during the national anthem when the word "Star" was sung were..well, insert your own word here.

And Stars fans, please take note: Jussi Jokinen doesn't play here anymore, so you can stop with the ridiculous shouting of  "Ju-ssi!!!!" during the first line of the song. Like the Mooterus, that was never a good idea.

Don't Mess With...The American Airlines Center

That one time I chose to yell "Stars" during the anthem?

It was the 2007 All-Star game. There was a pervasive feeling amongst season ticket holders that the building was, uhhh... "under siege" by northeasterners and Canadians. It seemed the best way to defend, nay, declare ourselves.

Poll
Is it disrespectful to emphasize "Stars" in the course of the national anthem?
No. It's a great part of the Dallas Stars tradition.
184 votes
Yes. It's disrespectful to the men and women who fight/have fought for this country.
10 votes

194 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 43 comments |

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Comments

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I think it's ridiculous

that such a big deal is being made about this. If you don’t like it, then don’t do it, but don’t begrudge someone who does. It is their right that all veterans have served to protect, and while you may not agree with it, you have to respect their right. I’ve honestly not met a single person that was in/is in the military that had a problem with the yelling of “Stars” during the anthem.

It’s not some arbitrary word being yelled to draw attention away from the anthem, it’s a way for fans of a team to get pumped up and feel more connected to the anthem and our team. I mean, it’s a fairly obvious connection that I think is quite easy to grasp. I love that tradition, along with the random guy yelling during the silence before the last few lines of the song; it always seems to start the crowd’s rumbling cheers to build into a thunderous ovation.

And Texans definitely have a greater respect for their military, especially considering Texas contributes the most military recruits of any state in our country.

by JCWM2 on Mar 13, 2010 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

I'm OK with it

(Hello. First-time poster and former Dallas resident/Stars season ticket holder. Still a fan in exile amongst the Ducks and Kings.)

I personally don’t have a problem with it. Having attended many O’s games while attending college in Baltimore, I was already acclimated to the random insertion of team pride into the anthem. And given the song’s original origin as an English drinking song, I don’t think adding a bit of local flair to it detracts. I might feel differently if a different and more historically reverential patriotic song, like “God Bless America,” was similarly interrupted by such a cheer.

I do have objections to the insertion of negative and derogatory cheers during the anthem, though, like yelling “Red Wings Suck!” over “rocket’s red glare,” as mentioned in the OP.

by Hopkins Horn on Mar 13, 2010 9:26 AM CST reply actions  

My Thoughts, Plus....Other Venues?

I go back and forth about how I feel about it. On one hand, I think it’s a fun Dallas tradition that was started without any intention to offend or disparage. So, we can be relatively assured that the first few people who did this, weren’t doing it with any malice in their heart toward the National Anthem. And, I can still remember my first few Stars games, and the chills I got hearing 17,001+ people (at Reunion) yelling “Stars!” at the same time.

However, I can also see the flip side of it. The National Anthem is a song that is treated with reverence in most countries. And any singing or yelling done during the song, is of the correct lyrics themselves, and all of them. If you’ve seen a Hockey Night in Canada broadcast and watched the Canadian National Anthem sung, it is done by nearly all in attendance, and no one is yelling one lyric louder than another to support their team.

After 9/11, I remember wondering how this would be done at the AAC. I caught several games there that year, and I remember there were nearly NO “Stars” chants…it’s because, for everyone, the National Anthem too on new meaning after 9/11. Now, with all things, memories fade and things become less painful…and it became easier to resume the tradition. But, was it right?

Also – the Allen Americans, who are the Dallas Stars CHL affiliate up in Allen, TX, started play this year. During the National Anthem there, I always hear a few people yell out “Stars” at the usual spots. Now, there aren’t many….probably 20 or 30 I’d guess, out of the 4,000-5,000 in attendance…but it can be heard. Is that appropriate? I mean…it’s not the Stars playing. But, on the other hand, they are an affiliate team. Thoughts on this….?

And, what if the Stars play at other venues? Is it just as appropriate to go to Phoenix on a road trip to catch a Stars game and yell it out there? Or, should it remain an AAC tradition?

As I said, I go back and forth on the subject…on one hand, it’s a fun Stars tradition, and one that is meant with good spirits. And, on the other, it is taking the National Anthem of our country and turning it into a team rally song. So…I guess I’ll have to read some more feedback, and see what others feel to see if I can be swayed further one way or another.

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and their minor league affiliates.

by Big D Hockey on Mar 13, 2010 9:31 AM CST reply actions  

How About at Texas Stars games?

I hit post, and then thought I’d ask….does anyone go to Texas Stars games? If so, do they carry on the same tradition there in Cedar Park?

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and their minor league affiliates.

by Big D Hockey on Mar 13, 2010 9:32 AM CST reply actions  

Yes, they do.

It actually took a few games to really catch on, but they yell it down in Cedar Park, too. I was at one of the early season games and you wouldn’t believe some of the ugly looks you’d get when yelling “Stars”. It was kind of funny, actually. I find no disrespect…though I typically don’t yell it, either.

by GoStarsGo on Mar 14, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

IT IS DISRESPECTFUL !

Simply put, it is putting a sports team ahead of reverence for the anthem.
NO sports team is above that.
As for the Chicago thing, they give an appreciative cheer at the end of the Canadian anthem and continue it throughout the American anthem. There, it is about flag and country, not about their team.
The Dallas situation disregards the meaning in the song and places the emphasis on promoting the team.
That is wrong!

by Cowpokealong on Mar 13, 2010 9:59 AM CST reply actions  

So is it wrong if military people do it too?

The y have no disrespect for the country, yet they still do it all them time…

by Tsudbury on Mar 13, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, it is!

A uniform does not equal intelligence.
I applaud their service, but, not always, their conduct.

by Cowpokealong on Mar 13, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, as long as you don't contradict yourself...

I can respect your opinion :-)

I see both sides of the argument, but I still enjoy yelling “Stars” at the games.
I definitely have a problem with the negative comments being yelled, and the booing too. I think it’s more about remembering our blessings of being here, and the sportsmanship too.

by Tsudbury on Mar 13, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

You think/feel/believe

You forgot that part. Your passion for this opinion doesn’t make you correct.

by laurenb on Mar 15, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas Stars Games

As a Texas Stars season ticket holder, I can tell you that we do keep up this tradition in Cedar Park.

A group of us made the road trip to the AT&T center in San Antonio last night and shouted there too. Once nice fellow made sure to turn around and tell us that we sucked :)

by muppet on Mar 13, 2010 10:06 AM CST reply actions  

Maybe other people have opinions differing to yours. Denigrating someone’s patriotism or calling them an idiot because they enjoy their sports team and sing along forcibly to the national anthem for two words is itself idiotic. Save your bellyaching for the people who turn our anthem into hateful speech, or do not honor another country respectfully. I’m a nine year vet of the submarine force, and while I didn’t participate in shouting Stars while I was active duty, I love it as a tradition and do so freely and proudly now. Don’t disparage any vet’s intelligence or patriotism. I just instantly disliked the "feel"’of your comments. Sorry.

by Waywardstars on Mar 13, 2010 8:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

As long as its for the right reason.

At my alma matter our mascot was the mustang, so every national anthem ended with “…and the home of the MUSTANGS”. In my junior year as the stars began thier march to the conference finals, my friends and I began a new “tradition” of yelling stars during the national anthem. We did it for our love for the team.

I am still "FRISKY FOR NISKY"

by RealDealNeal on Mar 13, 2010 10:26 AM CST reply actions  

Well, seeing as I hate freedom and the anthem

I don’t have a problem with it.

Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.

Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!

by Maximilian on Mar 13, 2010 11:19 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

That is your right!

That is the great thing about America, even idiots have the right to their opinion.

by Cowpokealong on Mar 13, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Serious response to a serious thread.

Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.

Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!

by Maximilian on Mar 13, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Freedom is overrated

Especially the freedom of speech.

by UNTJosh on Mar 13, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I can easily say that the anthem is one of my favorite parts of Stars hockey.

It’s not flag-burning, it’s not like we’re not standing and have our hats on and our hands aren’t over our hearts when we do it. And like Brad said, we always stand and salute the soldiers in the first intermission. This is just a fun, creative way we support our team, and I personally love it.

To me, this ‘controversy’ is the media making much ado about nothing…..

"It would've been a huge momentum boost if we had beaten the St. Mary's School for the Blessed, Blind, Deaf and Dumb."

Hockey nut since the night of 5/2/08. What a night it was.

DefendingBigD
Twitter: PatIVERSEN

by Pat Iversen on Mar 13, 2010 11:23 AM CST reply actions  

It's one of my favorite parts...

of going to watch a Stars game home or away. There was one time though I think in ‘08 in Anaheim I pretty much yelled “Stars”(got the attention of both benches and everyone else in Honda Center) and the second time “Stars” came around they booed. Times after that I don’t really notice if they boo or not. Maybe I got a little too loud that one time but hey, it’s not like I’m going out of my way to say something outside of the actual words of the National Anthem.

by ibsurfer91932 on Mar 13, 2010 12:04 PM CST reply actions  

When I went to my first Stars game, and heard the fans yell out STARS each time ‘star’ came up in the national anthem, I was a bit offended. I saw my army soldier brother react the same way when I brought him for the first time.

I have come to accept the tradition now, and I even yell RED during the ‘red glare’ part of the song on those rare occasions when the Red Wings come to town.

by PixelSyndicate on Mar 13, 2010 12:40 PM CST reply actions  

Caps fans yell Red too

Which is so very funny to me, considering that it’s Washington D.C. and the team runs on Russian talent. :D

by laurenb on Mar 15, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Truth be told

The tradition put forth by Blackhawk fans was started during a playoff series with the Edmonton Oilers in the 80’s. It didn’t really gain notoriety nationwide until the 1991 NHL All Star Game was played there just three days after Operation Desert Storm was launched.

And as luck would have it, the game was televised on NBC. I’ll never forget the pride I felt watching Wayne Messmer sing the anthem with 20,000 raucous Blackhawk fans providing the background vocals that day…and then seeing it replayed all over the news later that night.

I’ve never had a problem with the shouting of “STARS!”, either. There’s no disrespect meant by either team’s fans. And as you pointed out, Brad, the first commercial break of EVERY home game is punctuated by an announcement by Celina Rae of a serviceman or servicewoman in attendance at the game and the accompanying standing ovation from the crowd and stick banging by both benches.

by Brandon Bibb on Mar 13, 2010 12:43 PM CST reply actions  

I enjoy the tradition

I’m in the military and it doesn’t bother me, but I’ve been a rabid Stars fan since they moved down here. I remember when the Stars were more popular, you would hear fans at Mavs and Rangers games shouts Stars. I thought it was great. But I’m more of the personality that not much offends me.

by selke99 on Mar 13, 2010 12:59 PM CST reply actions  

i got chills

watching that chicago video again. i really see no harm. you’re supporting your country and your team. as long as no one boos the other team’s anthem. i really like the canadian one, too, but not as much after losing to them in the gold medal game haha.

i’ve never been to a stars home game (live in CT and CA), but i think that would be really fun to yell STARS! during the anthem. it seems pretty harmless to me. both of my grandfathers, my father and his two brothers, and one of my cousins have all served. i don’t feel like i’m disrespecting them, and neither do they.

by agvdstars on Mar 13, 2010 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

It isn't like people are pissing on the flag

Someone always has to have something to bitch about.

by UNTJosh on Mar 13, 2010 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

Seriously?

My father served and I have a friend in the Army who shouts it right alongside me. If you ask me, it’s pretty cool to have a tradition that no other team can claim. If other teams’ names were in the national anthem the same thing would happen with them. When I was at the Detroit game I heard some of the members of wing nation yell “wings” after “rocket’s red”. It’s harmful to no one other than uptight people who want to be offended by something. Guess what, there’s a lot better efforts you could be putting your time toward than getting offended at something that only 18,000 people do 41 nights a year.

by bigtill2002 on Mar 13, 2010 1:07 PM CST reply actions  

Yes, this is the worst thing that can happen to our anthem.

I mean yelling Stars! is 100X worse than the playoff series between American and Canadian teams where fans boo other countries anthems. Or how about the people that don’t even stand during the anthem because (I heard this earlier in the year) they don’t want to set down their food. Yes, let’s complain about this first.

When reading quality hockey material isn't enough, The Black Green and Gold
Twitter @BlackGreenGold

by Kent K on Mar 13, 2010 3:06 PM CST reply actions  

You're right!

I’m glad we’ve put this first on our list of priorities. I, for one, feel like a better American already.

I love these kinds of threads ;)

by Damien Franco on Mar 13, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah. I don’t expect everyone to uncover their heads and put their hand on their heart, but I do expect decent folks to stand during both anthems. And refrain from booing or other retarded acts.

by Waywardstars on Mar 13, 2010 8:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Like some people said above.

I’m not so sure about changing the words, but I think “Stars!” is great. I went with some friends last month and I joked that we could go home after the national anthem was over.

"Hey... Goldberg! I bet if that puck was a cheeseburger, you'd stop it!

by TheCrow471 on Mar 13, 2010 3:31 PM CST reply actions  

I have no problem with it...

It’s unique and the Dallas Stars way. We’re not disrespecting the military…we’re showing support for our team.

Also, the Stars are very classy when it comes to honoring the military. It’s not as though we’re snubbing them or anything.

Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.

by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Mar 13, 2010 8:24 PM CST reply actions  

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