The Case For Marty Turco
by Brandon Worley on Feb 8, 2010 12:22 AM CST
in Analysis
55 comments
Let's try something different.
All season long we've debated the merits of trading Marty Turco, of whether the Dallas Stars will be able to afford or even want to keep him after the season and what value he could have on March 3rd. Many felt that if Marty could put together a strong season that he force the Stars' hand, and the decision to keep the veteran goaltender would be made that much easier.
Yet with just four games to go before the trade deadline hits, it seems that the Dallas Stars are preparing to enter the 2010-11 season without Turco, and will most likely be testing his value in the coming weeks. If the team is going to ultimately lose Marty to free agency this summer, then logic says you must find a way to get something in return rather than give him away for nothing just a few months later.
Yet there's another scenario at play here, and one that hasn't been touched on much recently. With Joe Nieuwendyk publicly calling out Turco last month and with the Stars reportedly already deciding that Turco will no longer be a Dallas Star after next season, it seems that his fate has already been sealed.
But what if the Stars keep him?
When arguing the case to keep Marty Turco both this season and beyond, the first step you must take is to look at his value if traded. His status as an unrestricted free agent after this season hurts, as does the nearly $2 million cap hit remaining on his current contract. Teams will be hesitant to part with anything major for a 34 year old goaltender who is most likely a rental for a playoff run.
You also have to consider the market for goaltenders, which is not strong at all this season. Kari Lehtonen, Cory Schneider, and Tim Thomas are most likely available and it's easy to say that Turco could be the most valuable one of the group. Yet the number of teams in desperate need of a goaltender for the playoffs is extremely low; even Philadelphia seems to have figured something out in net. When you consider what the Anaheim Ducks received for Jean-Sebastien Giguere, who is thriving in Toronto, then you start to wonder if the Dallas Stars will come anywhere close to getting the value they want for Turco.
You also have to consider the immediate future of this team. While a playoff appearance will do little to change the immediate financial crisis affecting the Stars, making it to the postseason is the goal of every team in the NHL. And with the Dallas Stars just three points out of eighth place with four games to go before the deadline, this is a team that is far from throwing in the towel. Yet barely making the playoffs and then losing in four games will do nothing good for the Stars anyway, so what good is betting on the present and then finding yourself in the same situation anyways.
The big challenge in all of this lies on the shoulders of Joe Nieuwendyk. If the Stars find a way to be with just a few points of a playoff spot headed into the Olympic break, Nieuwendyk must determine what parts on this team he is willing to move to acquire value for the Stars both short and long term.
There are some who feel that there are major pieces on the current roster who need to move now, to get maximum value to build around a strong nucleus of players that speaks to a much more promising future for the Dallas Stars. Some high draft picks, some big defensemen and a young goaltender later and you have a team that is fast, talented, well rounded and dangerous. Yet there is no way this team should conduct a firesale if the Stars are on the cusp of the playoffs.
So that makes the Stars buyers of sorts at the deadline, caught in the middle between building for the future and adding important pieces for a playoff push. And while the Stars could potentially nab a quality goaltender at the deadline while moving Turco, the odds of him being as solid and historically reliable as Turco for the playoffs is very slim.
If the Stars are intent on making the playoffs this season, then keeping Marty Turco would be the most logical course of action. Unless the Stars decide that Tim Thomas would be worth grabbing (and if he finds a way to actually play better, not to mention he's not very young either), or if Vancouver decides to part with Cory Schneider for a healthy ransom, then the immediate options are much better for the immediate future of the Dallas Stars. Sure, you'd like to see the Stars find a way to add the 'goaltender of the future' sooner than later, but are you certain he's available right now? Is it Jaroslav Halak? Kari Lehtonen? Dan Ellis? Are you willing to put the playoff fate of the Dallas Stars on any of these shoulders?
Supposing the Stars do keep Turco to play out this season, losing him to free agency will hurt even more. Here's a goaltender who was drafted while in college, worked his way up through the system, spent eight years as the starter and then he's gone and you're left with nothing but a gaping hole in net. While that scenario is unfortunate, it's also one that happens all the time in sports. Now the Stars are faced with losing a veteran goaltender for nothing, and having to find a suitable replacement either via trade or free agency.
For posterity's sake, here are some of the top goaltenders facing free agency this summer, and their 2009-10 cap hit:
Evgeni Nabokov: $5.3M
Jose Theodore: $4.5M
Chris Mason: $3.0M
Dan Ellis: $1.75M
Martin Biron: $1.4M
Pekka Rinne: $725K
Antero Niittymaki: $600K
Wade Dubielewicz: $600K
That's just a few. You can find the full list of goaltender free agents here.
Let's try this scenario: the Dallas Stars not only keep Marty Turco for the rest of this season, but re-sign him over the summer.
Marty Turco has no gaurantee that he is going to demand top dollar in free agency, although I'm sure he'd like to test that theory. Yet it's unlikely that a 35 (to be) year old goaltender will be able to sign for another $5 million per season, and no matter where Turco goes there's a good chance a pay cut will be involved.
So why not take that pay cut with the Stars? This allows Turco to stay in a place he's comfortable to continue to help build a team he feels so responsible for as a leader.
But what is in it for the Dallas Stars?
For one, it gives the team more time and freedom to find the goaltender who will eventually replace Turco as the number one guy. In that list above, who do you feel can step up and carry the load for the next three to five years for Dallas? Only two are under the age of 30, and they are 29 anyways (Ellis and Niittymaki). There's also a slim chance that the goaltender you'd hope to sign would cost less than $3 million a year.
The Stars also have a veteran goaltender in place who has shown he can still play at a high level, and who could potentially coax and mentor his eventual replacement. Whether that's a young goaltender acquired via trade or free agency, Turco's presence would allow the Stars to not throw them into the fire and find a perfect medium while getting the future started valuable experience.
It's also important to remember that Matt Climie (who is also scheduled to be a UFA) and Richard Bachman are waiting in the wings as well. Perhaps the Stars wish to get one of those two experience as they learn under Turco, as both have the potential to be future starters as well. A healthy Brent Krahn could also become a major factor into this incredibly complex situation.
If the Stars do keep Turco after the trade deadline, a domino effect starts to take hold on the future of the team. You haven't received the value you wanted and you decide it would be best at least try and hold on to him for the near future. Are there better options out there? Is it worth making a lateral move, talent wise, while trading away valuable assets?
The play of Marty Turco in the next week will be a major factor in the team's decision. He has an incredible 1.00 goals-against average and a .970 save percentage in his past three games, and he's looked like the calm and confident Marty Turco fans have known all these years. If he continues this high level of play, then not only will the Stars most likely be that much closer to a playoff spot but his trade value will have increased drastically. Teams will see he still has the ability to carry a team when it counts the most and will be willing to part with more in order to get Turco for the playoffs.
Yet Nieuwendyk will also have a hot goaltender on his hands ready to lead the Stars into the playoffs. While this is a team that certainly cannot stay in neutral at the deadline and hope to be successful in March and April, perhaps the Stars decide that trading out goaltenders isn't the best option at this point.
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I agree with a lot of this article. The main point I think needs to be echo`d is re-upping with Turco is important because the focus is to find a young goaltender not an aging veteran. And having Turco to mentor, and hopefully pass along some serious puck handling skills(that is a key point of my argument is that this team will SERIOUSLY miss what Turco does outside the net) and provide a veteran presence at hopefully a discount price.
Exactly.
The key here is to not just make a lateral move, but do something that enhances the future of the team.
By the way, welcome!
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog on SBN: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Feb 8, 2010 1:00 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed, and to me I believe the only way to not move laterally is to add a young netminder. And if willing Turco is most likely candidate to be bargain as well as a mentor in a scenario I imagine involves split playing time where the hot hand will get the start, not unlike when Turco took the reigns from Belfour. And thanks for the welcome, I started listening to your show on iTunes and it is awesome living in Canada having the opportunity to listen to an hour of Stars talk every week. Keep up the good work!
“…and then he’s gone and you’re left with nothing but a gaping hole in net.”
The gaping hole is between Turco’s legs.
I would much rather they trade away Turco for a bag of pucks and bring up one of our prospects to play a few games while Tall Bald Alex Auld mentors him. Then bring up another prospect and let him play a few games. Get these young guys in some NHL games so we know what we already have in the cupboard before we make a grocery run. If either of these young guys shows sufficient promise, then resign Auld for a similar $1M/one year deal and have him platoon with the young goalie with the most promise.
And if neither Climie nor Bachman show they have what it takes, then PEKKA RINNE!
27 year old UFA who’s only made $725k this year. Platoon him and Auld, then we have two 6 foot 5 inch tall goalies. That should buy us a few years to finish developing a young goalie we already have or trade for/draft someone else.
Here we go again
Did you even bother to read Brandon’s well-reasoned article or did you just automatically, like most Turco haters, react? Climie has played a few NHL games (the end of last season when Turco had a leg injury) and frankly, he really didn’t show us all that much. Krahn is too injury-prone. Bachman probably has a few more years before he is ready, so unless you are ready to go into the full-on rebuilding wilderness for several years, he’s not the answer. Nor is Auld, or we wouldn’t have been having this discussion about Turco’s resurgence the last three games because he would still be sitting on the bench.
I don’t know yet if Turco should be resigned. If you’d asked me at the beginning of December, I would have said yes – perhaps with a bit of a pay cut, but yes. If you’d asked me two weeks ago, I would have said no, and I probably would have been willing to give him up and more at the trade deadline.
Now, I’m cautiously optimistic. Both he and Auld have played well against Chicago already this year (each won one of the two games we’ve already played against them and each of them was one of the Stars of the Game), so if Turco can do well tomorrow night, then I’ll start believing that this really is a streak he’s going on. He has played a good, conservative game in net the last few games, and if he can keep that up, he will win us more games than he loses (provided the team in front of him doesn’t phone it in, ie the last two games in Columbus).
And if you ask me right now if Turco should be traded, the answer is no. I think our chances of making the playoffs are better with him than without him. I’m not ready to give up on this year yet, which quite a few of the rest of you seem willing too do considering your reactionary responses every time Turco’s name is mentioned.
I read the entire post. Climie has had an additional year of experience/development/coaching over what he had at the end of last year. I agree Krahn is too injury-prone, which is why I didn’t list him with Climie and Bachman in my original comment. Bachman may not be ready, but how can anyone know unless he gets a few games with and against NHL players to know. Auld is not “the” man, but he is very capable for stints (i.e. platoon).
In my mind, a couple weeks of good play does not erase the last two years of very mediocre play. I have seen him let in far too many bad angle, five hole and long distance non-screened goals in the last two seasons. The physical tools are obviously still there, but something’s not right between his ears. I appreciate all he has done for the Stars over the years, but how long do we keep paying and playing him out of gratitude for past services rendered?
The difficulty with trading Turco is what value would we get for him? I said trade him for a bag of pucks, because that’s all he’d be worth as a rental. If a generational talent like Kovalchuk returns as little as he did as a rental, what would anyone really give for Turco’s services for two months? Everyone else in the league has seen the same two years of erratic play from him as we have.
Better a was/sometimes-is #1 than a never #1, if that's the choice, IMO.
Agree with Carlos G, if you switch out Auld and Turco in his plan. Auld cannot effectively mentor a starting prospect because it still looks like he is not a starter-level talent, IMO.
Turco has said he wants to finish in Dallas and hasn’t proven his stay/trade value. The franchise has a history of veterans cutting salaries to stay. The team doesn’t seem to have money to make a major acquisition towards immediate improvement this year.
If he can stay solid until the break, this situation gives Turco a lot of power to bargain for another season. It could be a deft legacy move as well – offer to stop-gap until the potential sale, take a pay cut to help the team, get a chance to prove that the D was the problem (assuming some kind of improvement occurs)… and never risk seeing if/what other teams would pay for him (which could be disheartening all around).
I think you know where I stand Brandon!
Very nice article. Heres to 2 more years of Marty in our net….. I hope
Texas Rangers- You hang 'em, we bang 'em!
I still don't think you're looking at the whole picture
So you automatically look to Auld to mentor someone when he’s managed just two starts in a row with decent play before he starts showing inconsistency, yet you’re ready to shove Turco out the door? Right. Auld’s been playing this way his whole career, which is why he’s always been just a backup except when he was forced by injuries to be the starter in Vancouver and he went back the next year to being a backup in Florida after being traded for Luongo. Honestly, I like both guys and would love to see what both of them could do with an honest to goodness real D-corp in front of them (Robi, Grossman, Fistric, I’ll keep – on most nights, I could do without the rest of the group, although occassionally they surprise me, like this past Saturday). Then, I think they could both be evaluated objectively on their merits as netminders.
Although the net is the most visible position, Turco (or Auld) are not the only ones out there on the ice, and there have been games where it has not been their play that has cost us, yet they are the ones who get blamed for it because they are the one in front of the net when the puck goes in (and yes, there are games where it was their fault as well). Turco joked earlier this season in an interview – “I think every defensemen has scored off me at least once this season.” Unfortunately, it really wasn’t much of a joke because it was true. How much would Turco’s (and Auld’s) GAA go down if we took away even half the pucks that went in off our own d-men? How many more games would we have won?
D men i would keep...
Robidas, Daley, Grossman, Fistric, and shitskins…. Nisky can jump off a cliff, or go to texas to learn some things
Texas Rangers- You hang 'em, we bang 'em!
Forgot about Skrastins
I’ll keep him. He’s been a good addition this year. Daley….I’m meh about him. I can take him or leave him most nights. There have been a few times when he looks like a deer in the headlights (often when a puck has just gone in off him into the net). Nisky drives me up the wall. He scares me anytime he’s anywhere near the net (no matter who is in goal). We lost a lot when we lost Zubie because Zubie was mentoring him. Now he’s out there on his own, looking lost most nights. If I were to make a list of the Stars that I was ready to show the door, he would be top of the list.
Fabian would probably be second on the list – he’s just really fallen off of where he was last season and has nowhere approached the promised return when he signed his contract. I just really do not see an upside to keeping him. He’s the forward that drives me craziest. Next would come Barch. He’s not much of a forward and not much more of an enforcer.
Another thing we need to look at is we may need one or maybe two more forwards. This is likely to be Lehtinen’s and possibly Modano’s last year (Mo looks like he’s still got some gas left in the tank, but you never know what he’s thinking as far as hanging up the skates). The status of Ott’s contract also worries me. I really don’t want to see him walk at the end of the season. Like Turco (perhaps even more so), he brings a lot of intangibles to the team that will not be easy to replace. Sure you could replace his numbers, but could you replace the “pepper pot”? And of course, we still have to sign James Neal….
Boy, am I glad that I’m not Joe Nieuwendyk….
I see and understand the entire picture.
Turco: $5.4M – 39 starts; 17W-15L-8OTL; pulled from two games; has won consecutive starts 4 times (three in a row once (1), two in a row three times (3))
Auld: $1M – 19 starts; 9W-6L-3OTL; pulled from one game; has won consecutive starts 3 times (two in a row three times (3))
I’ve never once said Auld is the answer, but if we’re getting inconsistent play, then why over pay for it? The savings can be used to find upgrades for Daley and Brunnstrom. Perhaps trade them along with Turco for three bags of pucks…
re-sign him
this team will be fundamentally hurt without him to coach the reigns for a young kid to eventually come in. we have a number 1 D (robidas is that, and i will argue that all day; you don’t get invited to canada’s olympic team, or be third in league in goals and top 12 in points if you’re not). we still need one defensemen, but i rather play this season out with turco, re-sign him cheap because he WANTS to be here, and continue to develop guys in the system and looks for young goalies outside as well. the key point brandon touched on is simple: there will be a massive hole in net that a great defensemen cannot fill if turco is gone.
and i said this yesterday. compare his numbers to marc-andre fleury, an olympian. remember how he lead this team the past two times we were in the playoffs. he is still capable of that. if dallas gets in, they are very dangerous team that i still believe can play with anyone. i would love to be a 8 or 7 seed and knock out san jose again. nothing would make me happier.
Marc-Andre Fleury
I never realized that his numbers were so pedestrian until you said that and I went and looked them up (although he certainly showed it yesterday during the Pens/Caps game when the Caps mounted their comeback). Goes to show what being on a Stanley Cup winning team will do for your reputation.
Ye of little Faith...
I’d just like to say thank you to everyone who has been supporting Turco through his struggles, and welcome back all you fans who came out to play once the rain went away. Now that it’s fair weather outside, I’d just like to say that Turco has plenty left to offer this team. All we need is at least a halfway decent defense that knows what they’re doing. More Robidas-Daley and absolutely no NISKANEN!!! Give a forward or two and get a defensemen. Take some pressure off of the D-men who do know what they’re doing.
P.S. – Carlos G… If all you want is a bag of pucks, give em Crawford!!!
I had a bad feeling about Crawford...
when I first heard he was hired and he’s done nothing this season to prove me wrong. Instead of working with and adapting to what he has, he seems to be trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and it ISN’T WORKING! Insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Part of that is Nieuwendyk’s fault. He knew what he had to work with when he hired Crawford. Sometimes, I think the major games that we’ve won (Phoenix, the two wins against Chicago, the two shootout wins against San Jose) have been in spite of him, not because of him. The two against San Jose were definitely low-scoring affairs (both 2-1 goalie duels – what else is new with Turco and Nabakov?) and not really a result of Crawford’s system at all. Sometimes, the team just manages to get all it’s crap together at once.
no
I mean i get what your saying Brandon but to bring Turco back, how much is that going to cost us? Do we really want thew Turco we have had for the past 2 years? Does a Stars team that is in a bit of flux over ownership and payroll really want to pay out a ton of money for Turco to be just average?
I don’t think that Auld is the answer but what is the answer is to go with a young guy/cheap vet. I am sure there is someone on the market that we can give a cheap 1 year deal to that would be a great mentor and be able to take over if needed..
also just food for thought, but if Turco has been terrible with his mechanics the past 2 years, do the Stars really want him to mentor a young guy coming up? So that guy can have terrible mechanics also?
I am sorry but i have seen too much bad Turco and not enough good. Wow he had a good week for the first time this year and now everyone wants to keep him? Just imagine if he goes through 2 weeks of good hockey, he might get a key to the city
born to destroy
I think the issue is the long term.
And what we’re saying is that you can either have a rotating list of spares until they find their next “guy” or you can maybe get Marty for cheaper and keep your stability in net a little while longer.
Marty’s shown in the last 3 games (98 saves, 101 shots) that he can get the job done if you just give him a little bit of help back there. Just something….some defensive competency. They’ve done that recently. He had a good week largely because the team in front of him had a good week.
So IF they’re somehow able to improve their defensive situation, then it stands to reason that Marty Turco can be “good enough,” in my opinion, as a stop-gap while you figure out what you’re going to do long term in goal.
If they’re able to sign a guy they feel be “the guy” going forward, then obviously that’s the first choice.
Of course this is all moot. If Hicks is going to have a lame duck season, will he say “slash payroll to the cap floor because I am out of here” ?
Could that mean there's a "fire sale" in the near future?
Like you said Brad, could be a massive dump of payroll coming which could throw the team into the rebuilding years of the Panthers of the early 2000’s. Can’t wait for that.
Golf Leafs Golf!
Well...they're not THAT far away from the cap floor.
And the assumption (or desperate hope of yours truly) would be that the the new owner would be interested in spending money.
I'll say this about Marty...
When he’s got it, he’s a great goaltender. We’ve all seen what he can do. I’d just like to see that Turco again…
Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Feb 8, 2010 1:46 PM CST reply actions
Elephant in the Room
Guess what, we all agree that Turco has been inconsistent for the past two years. Hmmm, what have the Stars been missing for two years??? Oh yeah, an effing game changing defenseman that can control the pace of the game. You can bring a concrete wall in and it will still be inconsistent with the current players. Long story short, get a Zubie to skate alongside Robi, and this problem doesn’t exist.
Get a Zubie?
The guy is a HOF defenseman. I would love another but they don’t grow on trees and most teams don’t trade them unless their GM is dumb.
The defense needs to improve no question but don’t get your hopes up that there’s one guy out there who will magically turn things around. He won’t be traded to the Stars.
+1
I was saying when I first jumped on the forums here.
The goaltenders (both of them) need a better D in front of them. We need another TOP defensemen not a goalie change. Keep Turco…he’s got a few more years left in him.
by Damien Franco on Feb 8, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
NO, NO, NO
Turco must go!
I cannot believe anyone wants to take a chance on a headcase who was terrible last year. Has been terrible this year except for the last three games. He’s not a winner. Has everyone forgotten the awful first shot goals? Does no one remember how many shots from the angles score? Should we ignore the gaping five hole and short side? He’s on the wrong side of 34, getting slower and his positioning has never been good. A three game stretch does not make up for his utter lack of mental midgetness the months before during this season.
He’s not going to accept a backup role and will cause problems in the room. A room, btw, that’s not exactly full of leaders or else we never would have had all the issues with Avery last year.
Pray Turco plays well these last four games and that someone is dumb enough to take a chance on him at the deadline but for the sake of this franchise going forward someone else needs to be in net.
he IS a winner
he’s won two national championships, with him starting, at michigan. sorry, but that makes you a winner, regardless if you haven’t want the Cup
then what do you do?
you want Auld to try and carry us to the post-season? you’re willing to play the free agent market? and for what? what are we possibly going to get in return that will be better than marty now or for the next two seasons.
don’t forget what he did for this team against vancouver, san jose, anaheim and detroit in the playoffs the past two runs. the past two years we’ve had to rely on inconsistent defence, which prompts inconsistent goaltending. there is a trickling effect there. i’m saying this from a goalie’s perspective. when i don’t trust the D around me, my game was definitely worse.
the D has shored up the past few weeks, and in response, we’ve gotten much better goaltending, from Auld and Turco. goaltending is extremely mental. the better the D play, the better the goaltending will be. look at new jersey. brodeur has had the benefit of a great defensive system in front of him for 15 years. they continue to produce quality defensemen and put players in spots where they can succeed. our D are slowly but surely on their way to that point, and with quality D in front of turco, we CAN win with him.
but don’t pull the he’s not a winner card. look at his career record. we never would have a chance the past two post seasons without him standing on his head. and the same goes for when he played for michigan, another team that played solid D, which creates solid goaltending.
This team isn't a goalie away from being
top eight in the league. It needs a goalie and at least two different top four defensemen. Those are going to have to be gotten this offseason in my opinion. As for goalie I’d rather take my chances with Lehtonen or Scheinder than see Turco retread again.
His poor positioning, weak goals, mental lapses and poor attitude have completely turned me off. Better to try something new and fail than repeat the past and hope the last two years are an aberration rather than the far more likely trend.
The truth of the matter is the NHL is replete with goalies who after the age of 34 are shadows of themselves. For every Brouder and Kipprosoff there are the Manny Legace’s the Grant Fuhrs and the Dwayne Roloson’s.
There’s no way you can look at his performances over the last 15 months and tell me its anywhere near how he played in 07 or 08. The poor work ethic and squabbling with coaches doesn’t help either. You can tell how bad it is when Joe Nieuwendyk has all but said he won’t be retained.
I when I was writing this article...
I knew this would be the response from you HF. KNEW it.
Look, I’m just presenting both sides of the argument here.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog on SBN: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Feb 8, 2010 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
I am what I am and I don't pretend otherwise.
If this team sells this year and makes changes. Gets younger, improves the defense and starts with the growing pains that comes with a young goalie I have no problem next year fighting for a playoff spot and hoping the run tests the team and shows them what it takes to win a cup.
My contention is this team isn’t really in that position. We’re honestly a more talented, further along in building than the Islanders. As such we need more talent, and are going to have to take our lumps. Finishing 15th in the league and missing out on the playoffs doesn’t help anyone but selling Turco, Ott and Skrastins at the deadline could very well make this team better in the future. Especially if you follow that up and move Daley and possibly Niskanen in the offseason. Finding a goalie isn’t automatic but I’ll take my chances on whomever Jackson and company point Nieuwendyk towards.
Building a team that can compete and win for years takes time and I’m under no illusions that this version of the Dallas Stars is going to be that team for another two or three years. Doesn’t mean I don’t have hopes and certainly doesn’ t mean that I won’t root hard for them to start next September just like I did this past one.
I never question your fandom, HF.
In fact, I consider you one of the most knowledgeable and determined Stars fans that I know. What I meant was, I knew your stance on Turco and knew what your reaction would be when I wrote this article.
This is a tough place for the franchise, and you’ve taken a very somber approach but one that a lot of Stars fans should pay attention to:
Sometimes immediate success is not as important as the future success of the franchise.
The Dallas Stars can make moves intended to get to the playoffs this season, lose in the first round and then what? You’re right back where you started. You are still financially strapped, have a number of UFAs that need signing, have a number of veterans with inflated contracts and you have done nothing to build on the future of the team.
There is a strong nucleus in place, and sometimes disappointing years must be suffered through as the team re-loads it’s arsenal.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog on SBN: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Feb 9, 2010 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
I also understand your frustration and your point.
My question to you is: What’s the answer? Who would you bring in, either via trade or free agency? If the Stars trade Turco, what’s the immediate plan?
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog on SBN: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Feb 8, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
exactly
and clearly we’re not that far from the top 8 because besides the loss of two veteran defensemen, zubov and norstrom, this team is actually better in my opinion, with the upgrade of been, neal, improved erikkson, etc. on offense.
If Dallas continues its
road woes, stick a fork in them. I don’t care who’s in net they won’t reach the top eight.
The immediate plan?
Assuming they don’t acquire a guy like Scheinder or Bernier till the off season I bring up Climie with the expectation to see if he can handle a backup role on this team during the offseason. Either way he’ll return to the AHL for the playoffs and Dallas will know better if he’s capable of that much or if he’s simply an AHL goalie.
It will also tell a lot about Auld and how the guys respond behind him and whether they want him back next year as well.
my only concern is
we have richards, morrow, ribeiro right around their prime with a solid group of young kids. i just like our chances to win within the next two years with turco more than the next two years with someone completely unproven. and i’m not willing to part with any of these young guys to take a chance on a goalie. look what happened with gustavsson. he can’t even stay healthy for a season. who knows what schneider or lehtonen or those guys will give us.
turco stays healthy. he can still play. strong D, and yes, road victories, makes this conversation go away.
And I don't see Turco regaining that form for long term success
Like I said three good games and all of a sudden Marty’s regained his form. Never mind the 15 months prior to that where he was anywhere from worst in the league to average. I understand the idea that Richards and company are in their prime. The problem with that is I don’t think the rest of the club is at a point to where they can pull around them and win. Richards, Morrow, Robidas, Ott, and Ribeiro aren’t enough. The young guys are young and as we’ve seen they go through slumps. Heck didn’t Neal go like 15 games with like 2 points.
As a whole they’re not ready and even if Nieuwendyk somehow finds two top four defenseman Marty’s goaltending is still going to hold them back, IMO. Besides a collection of talent on the backend doesn’t always equate success. See Toronto and Calgary.
Crapping a Zubie
The point of my post was that any goaltending suffers without great defensemen and the last two seasons have been a shining example of that. I know you can’t exactly pinch off a great defenseman, but my point is that you can’t blame the goalie for what has been horrendous defense. Check the stats, goals allowed isn’t a direct reflection of your goalie. Not to mention the GAA for both Turcs and Auld are the same. Marty’s is better. Marty gives you the best chance to win right now, given the situation. Keep him because if you trade him, not only do you get nothing in return but you send a message to your fans that you’ve given up on the season and that doesn’t sell many tickets. Being in the chase for the playoffs does.
Exactly
After one particularly horrendous defensive game (might have been the Philly game on my b-day – I think Crawford even said pulling Marty was more of a mercy pulling than anything else), I made a comment to a friend that there are times I don’t think Martin Brodeur could play behind our defense and he’s supposed to be the best ever. Last year, we were without Zubie for most of the year. This year, we don’t have him at all and nothing was done to replace him. Robi is doing his best (and I do love what he has done for us), but on any other team, he would probably be a #3 or 4 defenseman at best.
Disagree
Robidas has come a long way since first entering the league. Although he is not an ideal #1, he is sufficient. He would be better suited to be the #2 or a very good #3. There are a few teams where he would be their #1 or #2 and certainly be on the top pairing. For instance, if he were on Calgary, who has very high paid d-core, it would only be a matter if you felt he would be a better pair with Bouwmeester or Regehr, not that he is simply a #3 or #4.
Turco
Is at about the same point as Giguere was and we all see what moving to Toronto has done for his game. The position is all about confidence in the team in front of you, and if they don’t trust each other there’s no reason for you to trust them. That is when Turco is at his worst- when he dosn’t trust them and tries to do too much.
I still think that Turco is gone and it probably isn’t for the best. I think Brad Richards is also gone, and very possibly a Benn or some other young talent. You’ve got to give to get and I think the Stars will be sellers much more than buyers. I also think they’ll get rid of a coach or two by the end of next season if things aren’t drastically different. That’s just how things tend to go when a team is on the market. You’ve got to show a profit, you have to be competitive to a certain degree but most buyers aren’t going to care as much about how “close” you supposedly are.
Hell, most of the NHL is “close” to the playoffs with the loser points.
Hicks is not going to pay Crawford
on top of paying Avery and Hull and Jackson. At least Tippett is off his books. This is Nieuwendyk’s guy and he’ll get another year at least.
Second, Brad Richards has an NTC he reluctantly waived it to come to Dallas, I seriously doubt he waives it again so soon.
Third on a team that is severely cash strapped they will not trade the cheap good contract. That’s Jaime Benn who has two more years on his entry deal. If the money is that bad you’ll see Ribeiro moved and quite possibly James Neal. Not Benn. Though if they have to sell like that I’d much rather move Brenden Morrow than Neal. The production/dollar between those two, not to mention age and room for improvement means they should keep the younger one.
2 options
I think you,
A) Try and maintain the core and make adjustments with what you can to improve the defense. Ott Ribs are probably the best candidates with value to move because of Ott`s impending FA, and Ribs long term contract and seemingly hard time fitting the style of play. Benn and Wandell between them can fill the no.2-3 holes up the middle. You add a veteran defensive faceoff guy in the offseason(Halpbern). Hopefully you get a top end puck mover through whatever you do with Ribs-Ott then you do something with your excessive defensive parts ie. Nisky Daley maybe. To sum it up take expensive forwards turn that payroll in to defensive help, hopefully add a young goalie and in my opinion keep Turco as a mentor and hopefully you have added some other young depth in the process.
B) You come to the realization there is no quick fix and the best option is a longer term re-build. You chose a core of your most important players going forward, in my opinion; Richards, Benn, Neal, Wandell, Robidas, Grossman. You get young high potential players and draft picks with the focus being on defense and goaltending and a continued success at the draft is vital. You sign bargian free agents to short term deals and make sure year to year you maintain cap friendly contracts and low risk-high reward players.
I think personally I like option A because this team has some awesome offensive talent and even the defense has some very good potential with Fistric, Grossman, Robi and is just a few small pieces along with improved goaltending to get back to where it was in 2008.
yeah i like option a
this team isnt doomed at all. its a few adjustments away from being where it was in 2008. just really difficult adjustments
Texas Rangers- You hang 'em, we bang 'em!
Re-sign salary
That was a good article and always good looking at the many sides of the issue.
So, there has been talk about re-signing Turco next year on the cheap if he will take it. So, just looking for opinion…what salary would you be comfortable Turco making to keep him? If Turco demands, $5mil or he walks…do you keep him? $4mil? etc
resign or not
I can see both side of the argument. My problem with signing Turco again is that we don’t know which Turco we would get. It’s like nobody wanting to take a chance on signing Zubov last summer, would you get the one that had been hurt for 2 years or (20-20 hindsight) the one that has played well in Russia this year.
I’m afraid that re-signing Turco would result in move of the last 2 years play than the last 3 games played. If he’d had a bounce back year this year, no problem. But that didn’t happen. I know he hasn’t had the best d in front of him, but in most of his losses he hasn’t looked very good. If they’d all been like the game in Columbus, OK sign him. But that’s not the way he looked most of this year in a loss.
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