Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Amateur Mathematics Of Linsanity

Marty Turco: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

The introduction of a third goaltender to the everyday workings of an NHL team is kind of like bringing that awkward third wheel with you on a romantic date. It's going to be cramped, expensive, really uncomfortable, and at the end, face it, you're not going to get to go "all the way." To the playoffs, I mean. Get your mind out of the gutter.

When you look at what Joe Nieuwendyk did last week, it seems to make sense for the long term. He traded a prospect that may or may not turn out to be the special player we've hoped he can be, and a fourth round draft pick. In return he got a goaltender who was the #2 overall pick in his draft class, and the possibility of solving his long term problem at the position. It was a low risk, high reward move that won't cripple the franchise by any stretch of the imagination moving forward if it doesn't work out, provided Lehtonen's new deal is a reasonable one. He traded potential for potential and it seems like a shrewd move for someone who can't afford the July bidding wars.

But what about the short term? You don't often show up for work in the private sector and have your boss tell you "I hired a guy to replace you. There he is now, sitting in your chair. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with you yet, so just hang out." Marty Turco's just hanging out, knowing he won't be here next year. What he doesn't know about is the next 21 games, and it's not real clear that GM-Joe knows either.

The questions that sit before him as he tries to conclude the move he started last Tuesday are these: Can he afford to lose Marty Turco and still have a reasonable possibility of making the playoffs? Is trading Marty Turco essentially giving up on the season? Or does he believe that Kari Lehtonen, who hasn't played an NHL game since April 11th, 2009, can jump in the middle of the Western Conference playoff race and take them where they want to go? Does the financial situation dictate what must be done?

After the jump, a look at the options:

Star-divide

The Stars cannot afford to keep Marty Turco:

Joe Nieuwendyk on KTCK 1310 The Ticket:

."We have to take into consideration how it affects us financially. I think the number one priority  for us is that carrying three goaltenders is difficult and when there is financial gain to reap we have to look at that as well. At this point I don't know if we are going to move Marty. I don't know if we are going to move Alex [Auld]. I just know in my mind I, beyond the deadline, I don't want to have three goaltenders."

When asked point blankly a day after the trade was made on BaD Radio, he answered quickly that the trade works with their internal budget. The number $45 million is thrown around a lot, but the projections for the rest of the season don't jive. Take a look at Cap Geek or whatever cap-tracker you like and you'll see that the final number is predicted to be closer to $50 million than $45 at this point. The number was already over, but the addition of Lehtonen and Segal's salary puts another million on the books for the remainder of the year.

I don't pretend to know how the Stars count their payroll dollars, and what they mean when they say $45 million. I don't know how Tom Hicks views the Sean Avery money, or the $$ it takes to bring up AHL players (Sawada for instance has been paid some good NHL money this year). All I know is that the rumored internal budget is likely not being adhered to with the current roster configuration.

Moving Marty Turco means not only saving money this year, but potentially gaining assets for future. Are the Stars willing to keep Marty Turco for a slim chance at making the playoffs, even if it means they let him walk for nothing when the season is over? Isn't the bigger picture the more important one here?

Mike Heika speculates that if the Stars can't get at least a second round pick or better, they could consider keeping him.

Said Nieuwendyk, "I think there will be conversations over the next couple weeks for sure. Ideally we don't want to carry three goaltenders forward. It makes it uncomfortable on everybody. We'll be talking to other teams."

The Stars cannot afford to let Marty Turco go:

The other side of the coin is this: If they want to make the playoffs, they simply must have him in my estimation. He's the reason they're within striking distance of 8th place. They were completely unable to collect points on the road until he turned it on last week, and there's little (logical) reason to believe that it can continue without him.

First, how important are the playoffs? There are some who say "What does it matter? Make 8th place and get swept? Just forget about it." In a different league, I might agree with that. In a different NHL city even, I could get on board with that if I knew the fans were coming back no matter what. But not this sport in this city. Hockey in Dallas has worked for a long time because of one thing: Success. The economic downturn, combined with missing the playoffs two seasons in a row for the first time since the franchise moved to Dallas will mean losses at the gate that will take years to get back. The Stars have a loyal, knowledgeable, passionate fan-base, but it's not so robust that the team can withstand a long playoff drought.

Two or three home playoff games mean $$ in ownership's pocket, sure, but I think the front office must consider the long term health of hockey in the Dallas/Forth Worth area. The only medicine that works is playoff hockey.

Can the Stars make the playoffs this year without Marty Turco? I don't think so. That's my opinion. They will play 21 games in 40 days, mercifully with only 2 back-to-backs, but that's still hockey every other day for over a month. While the lucky few teams can lean on a guy like Luongo, Brodeur or Nabokov every single night, the rest need goaltending depth. Kari Lehtonen has played 5 AHL games this season. He is not ready to carry a load like that with a new team after a 5 day mini-camp following a 10 month lay-off. Even if he played light's out, you still wouldn't ride a guy like that very hard with all the injuries he's had. So how do you make the playoffs?

You need Marty Turco. Alex Auld has been an OK backup. He's played well at times, but he couldn't help them out of their road funk. He has not demonstrated the ability to steal games often enough to think he's going to get you into the tournament. Turco has something to prove, a chip on his shoulder, and a new contract to earn wherever it may be. He's stopped 208 of the last 215 shots he's seen and had two shutouts in six February games. As a fan, he's the guy I want in net right now.

What would you do?

Would you say that trading Marty Turco is something they must do for the long term health of the franchise?

Is trading Marty Turco essentially a surrender concerning the playoffs this year? Or do you believe they can do it regardless?

My head tells me that short term pain for long term gain is the way to go, but my little Stars heart wants to see Marty Turco get one last "March to the playoffs." Then maybe something, not special, but at least...pleasantly unexpected can happen, and we can give him a proper goodbye.

Comment 35 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

could it be ...

that the idea is to trade Auld using Lehtonen as a backup through the end of the season? As you’ve pointed out, that’s a lot of games to get through and maybe the idea is to have a more reliable backup goalie. It would put the Stars in the position to go for a slightly younger, potentially less expensive backup tender for next season.

by ibanez on Feb 17, 2010 12:42 PM CST reply actions  

I'd be cool with that

But it just seems so counter indicative of what they’ve said they can afford.

It seems to me that they need to lose payroll dollars, if what they’ve said all along is true. Otherwise, I don’t know what to make of the supposed internal budget.

Plus, wouldn’t that be really awkward?

by Brad Gardner on Feb 17, 2010 12:55 PM CST reply actions  

Very very awkward.

and I’m with you, I don’t think Lehtonen is up to the task to carry out the season from here.

There also may be some concern for selling the team if they don’t make playoffs?

I get too attached to the players. In hindsight I’m sorry to have gotten so frustrated with Turco a month ago with a chance of him leaving now.

by ibanez on Feb 17, 2010 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

Options, options, options

The signing of Lehtonen gives the Stars options at the break, and I think that’s one of the main reasons they grabbed him. First, it gives them a goaltender for next year with incredible upside, which has been mentioned before. Second, it gives them a solid backup/starter for this year, as long as he continues on his road through rehab. With Lehtonen in place, they can trade Turco, free up some cash and get a solid NHL-ready young defenseman in return and perhaps a pick or two as well. They could also hang on to Marty, and let go of Auld, as he has been kind of a disappointment as a backup this year. But, with the way he has played this season, I can’t believe there are going to be very many offers for him. And if there are, they won’t be for much. Plus, if they hang on to Marty, they have to be willing to carry that 50M budget for the season. They will only shed a little off of it by trading him, anyway…but it’s something to keep in mind too.

I don’t mind saying goodbye to Marty via trade. He’s been great for the Stars, but he’s also been detrimental at times. There’s no guarantee that Turks will stay on this hot streak he was on at the break. He’s such a streaky goalie, that it can turn on a dime, and we can end up having him let in a bunch of soft goals in a few games, and we’ll be back in 11th or 12th place. I think putting it all on him is a bad idea anyway…they need some help on D, and Turco is the best hope at bringing that to Dallas. Through a trade.

I’m thankful he was a Star for many years, but I think his best years are behind him. If we can get something for him, I’m all for doing it. I just don’t think there are many teams out there willing to take the cap hit Turco costs.

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and other Texas hockey

by Big D Hockey on Feb 17, 2010 1:06 PM CST reply actions  

This market is flooded with goaltending.

If Turco is traded it will be for little value. I’m not reflecting his skills, but in a flooded market, and teams knowing the Stars want to move turco, they have the leverage. I don’t see him being moved for anything of value, but GM Joe has done some miracles in the past.

I am still "FRISKY FOR NISKY"

by RealDealNeal on Feb 17, 2010 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Marty's as good as gone...trust me.

I have no inside info. But I’ve been around professional sports for too long. The Stars have to trade him and try and get as much value they can before losing him to FA. Frankly, the last two weeks couldn’t have worked out better for Joe. Marty’s value has to have gone up and now, Joe can counter to another GM with a straight face…“Hey, Marty is in playoff form and he can help your team.”

Also, I’m of the opinion that the Stars are still a playoff team without him. The team as a WHOLE has played better on the road. Sure, Marty’s played better. But, I’m not so sure the Stars would be anywhere different if it had been Lehtinen in net during the recent surge.

I’ve not been a big Turco supporter this year. He’s been erratic and suffering way too many brain farts in critical moments. And I don’t give a crap about his puck handling…that’s wayyy overrated. Yes, it can be an advantage. But he gives up goals other goalies do not. Just play your damn position and let the Dmen move the puck…that’s what most solid playoff goalies do anyway.

As far as I’m concerned….I’m ready to move forward without Turco and I think the Stars chances this year are not significantly decreased now that they have Lehtinen. Not enough to keep Turco anyway.

by 5PointPuckism on Feb 17, 2010 1:07 PM CST reply actions  

If the team as a whole is playing so much better

then why has Marty been facing 35-40 shots a night? The D has not been playing better, Marty has just been stealing some games for us (go back and reread the recap for the Minnesota game, which brings up that very point about the D). And there is no guarantee that trading Marty is going to bring us that #1 D-man that we really need. If you’re concerned that Marty is a streaky player, what makes you think that the GMs out there aren’t worried about the same thing? Any team that wants him is going to want a solid D in front of him, so they likely will not be willing to give up anything in that regard to get him.

They also know Nieuwendyk has backed himself into a corner carrying three goalies – someone on the DMN blog suggested that Joe meant to trade for Kari and trade away Marty at the same time. I think that is the case (which is why the rumors about Philly were flying fast and furious the night of the trade) and that he didn’t mean to trade for Kari quite so soon but his hand was forced by an offer from the Blues, so he didn’t have a plan in place for Marty. A man who is in a desperate place might be willing to do anything to get out of it, which means possibly taking less than he might under other circumstances. Such a scenario would not be in the best interests of the Stars.

And there is the fact that neither Lehtonen or Auld have shown that they have what it takes to be playoff goalies. If that is the goal, then the team needs to stick with Turco with Lehtonen playing backup. I like Auld, but I think he really has become the expendable one at this point. Then during the summer, the Stars can reevaluate. If the last six games were not a fluke and Marty does continue on the same path for the rest of the season, maybe the two sides can come to an agreement for a year or two at a hometown discount. Marty has said in the past he really would like to stay, so I don’t think it is all about the money for him. If an agreement cannot be reached, then that is an additional $5.7 million that the Stars have to pay others.

by TracyJean on Feb 17, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

The D HAS played better....

There have been less turnovers in our zone, better puck clearing, and better positioning from our D men during this upswing. The quality scoring chances have been few and far between during this run…and that has nothing to do with Turco. He’s been solid. Don’t get me wrong. But the 35-40 save statistic is not what it seems. Hell, Brad could probably make half of those just by sitting still in the crease!

by 5PointPuckism on Feb 17, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

They're not going to get defensive help for Marty Turco

They have $34 million in payroll dedicated to next season already, and that only buys them 12 players. Zero goaltenders.

They MUST offer Lehtonen 110% of his current deal, so pencil him in for $3.3 at least. Plus a backup.

They have to offer James Neal in the neighborhood of 4 million, or lose him.

We’re up to around $42 million now, with an internal budget of 45. They need to sign a whole bunch of other folks with 3 million dollars.

I don’t see how they can significantly improve the defense. They cannot afford to take salary back. They just can’t.

by Brad Gardner on Feb 17, 2010 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

No matter who the goaltender is....

it doesn’t sound like they’re going to get defensive help for him, are they?

by TracyJean on Feb 17, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I've heard that he can be resigned for less

Because of the significant number of games he missed due to injury. Not that it will save a lot, but I’ve heard that we could get him for his current salary, pretty much.

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and other Texas hockey

by Big D Hockey on Feb 17, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

No

And it doesn’t look like there’s money for Ott either.

by Brad Gardner on Feb 17, 2010 1:25 PM CST reply actions  

This all remind me of my next big worry

And that is Grossman. He needs a new deal too, don’t forget.

by Brad Gardner on Feb 17, 2010 1:31 PM CST reply actions  

New ownership

The big unknown is whether or not the Stars will be sold, and once again be able to spend to the cap. You’re talking an additional 10M per year (or 5M if you go with the estimated actual number they will finish with), and that is a big deal.

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and other Texas hockey

by Big D Hockey on Feb 17, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

True

But Nieuwendyk can’t spend money he doesn’t have yet.

He has to plan for the worst, right?

by Brad Gardner on Feb 17, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right

Absolutely. You can’t hope for the best case scenario. But, without a sale, Nieuwy and Stars fans have to get used to the idea of losing Ott and probably a few other UFAs this summer. Even after shedding Turco’s salary, there are new contracts for Ribeiro and Eriksson kicking in next season, as well as Lehtonen’s deal. We’ll probably save a few if Mo decides to hang up the skates or go elsewhere (very unlikely) too, but I think there’s a good chance he’ll be back at a reduced price. Best case scenario is that we’re only going to have a few million to spend for next season unless Hicks sells.

Big D Hockey: A hockey blog covering the Dallas Stars and other Texas hockey

by Big D Hockey on Feb 17, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok

Now I’m getting depressed. And this, after I was in such a good mood before the olympic break…enjoying the recent wins and effort these guys have been showing.

CHEER ME UP BRAD!

by 5PointPuckism on Feb 17, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Keep him.

If they were a few more points out, with no real momentum, then I’d say sure, make a deal. But they aren’t, so they shouldn’t, because they can’t. Trading Turco now looks like they’re throwing the towel in on the season, because Lehtonen hasn’t played in a year, and Auld isn’t anything more than an OK backup. Marty’s the only chance they have.

And don’t kid yourself into thinking we can magically fix our defensive holes with a trade of Turco; the best we’d get for him is a draft pick, and even if that were to pan out, it’d still be some time before that guy arrives. Frankly, the long-term affects aren’t enough to waive the opportunity in the short-term. At least in my opinion.

by Giant Space Ants on Feb 17, 2010 1:42 PM CST reply actions  

Which, now that I think about it

Is essentially what Brad G said. So I guess that means I’m reiterating it?

by Giant Space Ants on Feb 17, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

Brad G. talked about not only the long term of giving Turco up for nothing (letting his contract expire) but also the long term of hockey in DFW in not making the playoffs again this year. Moving Turco is pretty much giving up on the season. Like others have said before, if we could get something good for Turco, it would be worth it to move him. But if no other GM is willing to offer much for him, I say let’s see this thing to the end (especially with Turco’s recent inspired play) and allow Lehtonen to experience a full offseason and training camp before hopefully filling our goalie needs for years to come.

by selke99 on Feb 18, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that if they could've traded Turco...

…they would have already. So unless someone’s goalie explodes in the next two weeks I’m thinking he stays through the end of the season.

by Sugaa on Feb 17, 2010 2:38 PM CST reply actions  

Shop both around

And take the best offer. Chances are you’re not keeping either Marty or Alex after the season and you’re not going to get a substantial amount for either one. So why not take the best deal? If someone offers up an arm and a leg for Marty as a rental, jump on it. If someone offers up anything better than a 6th rounder for Auld, then we win that deal.

The absolute worst thing Joe can do is get Toronto-syndrome and attempt to keep Marty beyond this season now that we have Kari. Yes, it sucks to see beloved players go, but you can’t hold on to them when they’re past their prime, not when you have other options. That’s what Toronto did from 00-08 and look where that got them. For those thinking Kari isn’t an option because you’re expecting a proven number 1, you’re wrong. Is he the BEST option? No, but he is an option with tremendous upside if given the opportunity. At least let the kid play a game before making any reservations about him.

I love Marty just as much as the next guy, but we’ve got to move on. Whether that means running for the playoffs without him, or parting ways at the end of the season, it’s really the only option aside from him taking a massive pay cut and accepting a backup role next year.

As for the money issue, I’m quite sure that Stars are only required to offer Lehtonen 100% of his current contract as he is making >$1mil (as per Sec. 10.2, sub-sec a, Par. 2, sub-par c). If Joe can manage to deal Daley, that would also free up some room.

by LilEagle on Feb 17, 2010 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

This is tough.

We all know Turco can be brilliant and we all know he can be a total pain. I’d like to keep him the rest of the season and see what happens, but get something for him at the draft or before free agency.

Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.

by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Feb 17, 2010 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

Trade him for a 2nd rounder or better.

Well, that would probably depend on who the 2nd rounder is from (potential draft position). 1st rounder or proven top D (snorting while lol) definitely.
Mid rounder and top prospect … depends.
Mid level D, no thanks already got that.
3rd round or lower, definitely not. keep him and push for playoffs, even though he’s gone this summer the potential + of making playoffs is worth more than that.

Last one is what I bet on … and if so take absolutely anything for Auld or he will end up waived, unclaimed and in Austin. Where he won’t count against the cap, but will still be paid his NHL salary by broke Stars.

by 1paniolo on Feb 18, 2010 12:38 PM CST reply actions  

you have to trade him because lets face it, even if the stars make the playoffs, they aren’t going anywhere.

born to destroy

by Lifewish on Feb 18, 2010 7:22 PM CST reply actions  

Look For The Future

Personally I have never been a Marty Turco fan. To me he never looked solid or magnificent. Anything special he did always looked accidental because he was flopping around kicking and flailing his arms everywhere, mostly having to do this from his bad positioning. It all really started to fall apart for him with the recent shrinkage of goaltender pads. The soft goals he lets in completely demoralizes the team. They score one to come back, he lets one in 20 sec later. I don’t think they should keep him for two current weeks of good play. Look at his last two to three years. He had a few 2 and 3 week periods of solid goaltending in there as well. How long do you think that will last? I’d rather take my chances on Auld, Lehtonen, and a new addition to the D Corps.

by DTCBob on Feb 20, 2010 11:53 AM CST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Dallas Stars website. We talk Stars hockey 24/7/365. You're welcome to join in the discussion; please follow the code of conduct for commentary.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Untitled_000000_small
Week of 2-13 OT Thread
Group_shot_at_old_7_club_small
Prospect Reilly Smith update
Small
How would you feel about a name change?
Me2_small
College Hockey @ AAC
Small
Bring Back Garry Glitter
Small
The Longest Yard On Ice
Sunrisebusportrait_small
Why haven't the Stars been collecting more loser points?
Small
Mark Fistric, super sub?
Small
Everyone just breathe...
Untitled_000000_small
Week of 2-6 OT Thread -- Snaps is the Name of the Game, The Name of the Game is Snaps

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managing Editors

Profile_small Brandon Worley

Sb_avatar_small Brad Gardner

Staff Writers

Twitterme_small Brandon Bibb

Hullring_small Cole Jones

198849_alds_rangers_rays_baseball_small Josh Lile

Me2_small Taylor Baird

Erin_and_kevin_at_rangers_small Erin Bolen

Contributors

Small starshorns

Pic_2011-02_small scm83x

Graphic Design Artist

Avatar_small RyanM